I've always had my eye on VW GTI or Jetta as I think it is one nicely designed car inside and out. But, the reliability issues I keep reading about have always kept me at bay. :(

 

In case this doesn't get posted on MotoringFile, seeing as they have removed previous posts ... it's clear they don't like OBJECTIVE and LOGICAL arguments, I will post here to present what is right:

Truly, I don’t want to sound like an *** here but the entire situation is laughable and the fact that ANYONE is arguing with logic, my logic, is just reinforcing why this failure was allowed to happen in the first place.

‘JFS’, CLEARLY understands the logic, as do several others, that what I have presented cannot be argued LOGICALLY without a foundation of maximum profit as the reason for half-assing this car.

‘Alan Smithee’, it is “out of the park” because of the money BMW makes, not because it’s the right thing to do … the swindlers who wrote the derivatives contracts underpinned by subprime loans, sold to banks all over the world who are now writing off billions and tens of billions, may look like champions who hit homeruns by making billions in the process BUT it was the wrong thing to do regardless of the profits involved.

Further, I want either a BASE JCW with 210hp with NO forced options, OR an appropriate full-on, skirted, braked, rimmed, lowered monster … for BMW to choose for me what they want (half-***) and force me to then add or substitute their choices is asinine.

‘Gabe’, go back and read again the logic behind my post … your argument is looking like primary school grade material. This has nothing to do with BMW building and selling what I want specifically, although what I want will dictate whether I will buy or not … and this car is nowhere near what I want.

They half-assed this car by: 1. forcing me to buy rims I don’t want which I pay for upfront and then have to pay twice by buying new rims … stupidity; 2. forcing me to buy brakes I don’t want or need and preventing me from reallocating that money elsewhere … stupidity; 3. not lowering the car to imply, or make conspicuous, the fact that it’s a performance upgraded vehicle … not to mention absolutely necessary on a car that looks jacked up ready to go off-roading … stupidity; 4. leaving out an appropriate level of suspension to correlate with a faster car with bigger brakes, but adding rims … stupidity; 5. forcing me to pay for an illuminated shift **** … are you kidding me? … stupidity; 6. making any additions dealer installed options so I can get raped even further … I guess the factory can’t cope with such trivial issues … stupidity.

Again, either build a BASE version with an upgraded powertrain, for those who don't track, and nothing more OR build it as it should be. But seeing as how there are enough people posting that can’t seem to grasp this rudimentary logic and are willing to spend money like they’re bank machines, why would I expect BMW to do anything different than make as much money as they can which ever way they can … fools and their money are soon parted … and I ain’t no fool. Maybe next time BMW.

 

Until MINI/JCW comes up with an AWD version to tame that oppressive torque steer and wheel spin that's soooooo annoying on the base R56 Im simply not interested. At a projected 207 ft/lb of torque, Im sure the torque steer will allow the JCW to drive up its own *** if the driver is not careful....

And Impulsive, have you applied yr logic about half-assed-ness to the GP forum? they will love you over there, prob as much as they loved me and my speil about half-assed-ness...

 

I demo'd a steptronic 135i the other day and I have >zero< complaints about its ability to deliver power It *will* replace my problem-ridden R53 next year.

 

and since when are BMW's the epitome of reliability....I drove a 135i last weekend and was bored with it after ten miles. It is quick, but it is not a "driving" machine.

 

Depends on >how< you drive it... I took my demo into the foothills W of Denver and was >not< bored with it, after 100 miles, and at altitude, where there's always some power loss.

Clearly, one man's driving machine is another's >yawn im soooo bored<

 

Vague steering, no M diff, high center of gravity, 3500 lbs...just not my cup of tea. I've moved on and am looking at either a Cayman or an Elise.
But, as you said, to each his own.

 

Yeah, I think we did this on another board...I really was excited about the 135i, after reading the reviews, and thinking this was gonna be the MINI replacement--and it was a let down. Good engine note, great brakes, but not nearly as involving as the MINI. I got a rush when I test drove an R53 the first time; no other car has equalled that--but I was really surprised how much a letdown the 135i was.

God, don't get the steptronic--get a manual, or wait for the DCT...

 

Four "I"s in that one paragraph. Go figure.

No idea what your argument is but I can't imagine it's far off of mine. Sort of ironic based on your post.

 

See? yr MINI has spoiled you.... I think comparisions between the two are moot, for they are 2 waaaaay different kinds of cars. I left my S in the shop on one of its many repair visits, detaching myself wholly and completely from it (to the tune of driving my old beater 300k mile Toy PU to the dealership) to drive 135i. Maybe that's why my initial impressions are different--I approached 135i emotionally and physically detached from my R53.

And it was a blast, man!

 

Every comparison is moot because nobody has even driven the bloody JCW car yet. Don't people usually wait to actually drive a car nowadays before completely rubbishing it? And if not, why not? If people are so crapped off at the suspension and aerodynamic upgrades not coming standard that it's going to stop them buying the car then that's good for them. It's simple, don't buy the car and good luck in whatever machine you put yourself in. However there's no need to also trash the car without experiencing it first. I've said this before but I have a feeling that with the JCW suspension added this car will be a little beast and a hell of a lot of fun. When all is said and done it's about how badly you want a Mini when compared to other cars that will fall into that price range. I happen to want one a lot.

 

My guess is that the uprated gearbox and everything else has a lot more to do with padding the options list than actual necessity. Much like in the R53 JCW (A useless head that flowed numbers barely worthy of even calling it a new head), MINI wants to add things to the list of "Replaced Parts" to justify the overhyped, overpriced JCW S2.

Whether you pay for it in the price of the parts up front or on the back end to fix any potential problems, you're still paying for that warranty. You really think you're getting free maintenance on that BMW? SOMEONE is paying for it .

 

 

'sequence', I've got enough grief dealing with this ... I don't need anymore dealing with the GP group.

'Gabe', it is I who argues for what is RIGHT and I will voice my logical view when I am spending my money. Whether it's one 'I', no 'I's, or countless 'I's ... don't derail the issue ... I'm not spending your money, thus, not referencing you nor anyone else. MINI would be wise to do the RIGHT thing and not solely focus on squeezing the last buck they can out of compromised customers.

 

Seems like rather odd items to pick to pad profits. Tooling for a different clutch, and transmission on a limited production car seems like the wrong way to pad something. As far as the pistons go, there was a detailed writeup somewhere about piston design compromises that made a change in the JCW seem like a really good idea. Can't recall where I read it.

 

Once again mini/bmw has given a reputable publication misleading info. Road and track reported on the JCW Factory car in their magazine and stated the Factory car comes .4 lowered and that is the same ride height adjustment my JCW Suspension R56 has.

This is a false statement by Road and Track because the car will not come with the JCW suspension the customer has to add it through the dealer.

I don't blame BMW for misleading people because the car would look hideous and be laughed at by performance publications if they showed a regular JCW factory car with the stock R56 cooper suspension it comes with. Can you say 4x4 performance car

BMW better hope the mags test the Factory Car with JCW suspension or it will be a joke compared to other 30K plus performance cars.

MINI/BMW should save their rep and include the suspension and not mislead to save there sorry wanna be special edition car

There last chance to save Mini's reputation as one of the finest handling car in the price range is to include the JCW suspension and offer a Suspension delete option for the few people who would want a Factory Car but in a slightly more comfortable ride. I say slightly because I had standard suspension and went to JCW and the ride is very very close to how it road stock.

I can't imagine the JCW suspension VS Standard could cost BMW more than 100 dollars more. The argument that the dealer can make more by adding it is a bad one. If mini is not thought of for top performance many people will not think off adding the suspension to their regular cooper S. A good Factory car will increase the Minis overall popularity and the positive press the car will get will lead to better sales in general.

 

I agree with everything impulsive said and the fact that you walk the political line instead of using your voice with BMW/MINI is something you cannot defend. I am not in your position I don't have to be political so I will call it like it is.

NOT INCLUDING THE JCW SUSPENSION ON THIS CAR IS ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS THINGS I HAVE EVER SEEN BY ANY MANUFACTURER. THIS IS A SPECIAL EDITION PERFORMANCE VARIANT AND IT LOOKS LIKE A 4x4.

BMW LIES WHEN THEY SHOW THE CAR TO ANY PUBLICATION BY ADDING THE KIT AND MAKING IT SEEM LIKE IT IS STANDARD.THIS HAS HAPPENED TO EDMUNDS and ROAD AND TRACK .

I have not seen you post anything like this and I know when you talk to your sources you probably nod and agree a lot.

You are the typical journalist who does not stand up. It is only the very few that make a stand and you are not one of them. I have used your site for info but always keep in mind that you will always find the positive in BMW no matter how bad the situation is.

 

Yeah, definitely not what you add to pad profits. Kind of the opposite, actually. I find it pretty interesting that a big part of the cost of the new JCW is in beefing up the drivetrain to handle the added power. With the R53, they took the base engine and added forged crank with uprated oiling and forged connecting rods. This meant the JCW kit could be "bolted on" to the stock R53 drivetrain (and tuners can take it on up to 300hp reliably). Given that BMW felt they needed to reengineer the R56 engine to handle Stage II power, I would be very wary of pushing the power beyond Stage 1 levels...

 

Whew, doggy! What sayest thou to thine accuser, Young Gabriel? Have you not suckled at the teat of the corporate sow?

 

Honestly this is laughable. Did you not read my thoughts on this car a few weeks back?

That is almost a word for word quote of my response to the (very high level) source that gave me this information last week. In fact I've been saying the same thing to every source I've had (German or otherwise) since I initially learned about this car's spec last fall.

You know it's funny I remember seeing you in the room every time. And on emails, I know I've been bcc-ing you. So you should know... right? Honestly you have no clue what goes on behind the scenes and how I've fought for so much sh*t over the years for people like you. Thanks for the kind thoughts though.

 

Wow. Let's play the Jump to Conclusions game. What exactly has Gabe done to invite the level of invective you spew at him besides provide some great inside info you'd probably never otherwise hear?

Despite all of your insinuations, he's not a spokesman for BMW/MINI, and has been the voice of the performance enthusiast that might otherwise go unheard.

 

While I agree with the concept that it is a bit shady for MINI to be sending cars to the media with dealer installed options on them, I have to say that calling out a guy who runs a free information website and happens to be a fan of the brand is pretty absurd.

I've seen plenty of criticism of BMW corporate decisions on the site, and heard plenty on White Roof Radio.

I'm personally really really sad about the decisions they've made with this JCW. I would have found a way to get one if it met my personal expectations. It doesn't look like it will, so I'll be keeping my car for another year or two. I'll live. I understand other people are frustrated with these decisions too, but mindlessly attacking the messenger seems to be the wrong direction to go.

(although, that messenger did sorta say he'd pick up a nurburgring sticker for me last year when I met him at the dragon.......)

 

Ditto that. It's almost like Gabe isn't allowed to have an opinion on his OWN site--which is by far the most informative MINI news page out there. And to say he's never critical of BMW/MINI is out and out wrong.

Heck, I don't agree with everything he writes (I don't like the 135i as much, although I really wanted to--maybe with a few mods...), but I do respect it, and never have had a problem seeing where he was coming from, even if I felt differently. I guess the key word is 'respect', which is so easily avoided on anonymous websites...

 

it's time to just get along...Bmw.Porsche,Mercedes ect ect always add on for options..That's just how it is,try $13,000 for ceramic brakes and you will quit moaning about your precious suspension.The car is going to be great fun and unforunately you have to pay to play.I love my little car and unfortunately it is in the land of the 40k plus Mini,but that is our personal choice.Thanks Gabe for all the insight and hopefully some folks will just have to accept it is what it is and enjoy our special little cars...Take care

 

A "personal choice" that you just chose to make very public by posting it in this thread, so don't complain if you are attacked. (I think you are completely insane for spending that much on a MINI, but that is just my "personal" opinion.)