I don't think so....You can compare the R32 and STI with the Mitsu EVO, Audi's S3.

The MCS is not in the same grouping at all. Just look at EVO magazine's listing of the vehicles, they are not in the same group, nor in the same insurance class, etc. It is a small FWD hatch, plain and simple.

 

Um, it's the JCW Stage 1 numbers that you posted that are the anomaly. The base MCS will get to 60 in the low- to mid-6 second range easily. The factory JCW can be expected to do it in the mid- to high-5 second range. And it will never do much better than that. You see, there is only so much reliable power you can get out of 1.6 liters with today's technology...and there is only so much grip a 205 section run-flat can provide at the front wheels.

The STI numbers are indeed consistent with other tests. Sounds like a better car for you anyway.

Edit: Wait until Car and Driver publishes 5-60mph tests on both cars. Even though the JCW and STI are very different cars, I'll be the times are a lot closer than you think. Takes a brutal launch to get under 5 seconds out of an STI...not something most people would do to their cars.

 

thanks for telling me to GTFO As I mentioned several pages ago that I had planned to get the '06 R53 and trade on a full JCW car whenever that was released. Now that it has been, it's well, underwhelming. Given a choice between the '08 STI and the JCW today, it's not the no-brainer I thought it would be. It's a little shocking to see such low numbers to be honest. Look back at the Motoringfile articles from a year ago....there was talk of 230-240bhp.

 

I wish 0-60 would be phased out. I don't care about how one car launches versus another. It's all but useless in the real world.
5-60 and 5-80 and 5-100 is so much more relevant to everyone that is not a 1/4 miler. I want to know how quick a car feels when you go WOT from a roll. Many will floor the pedal once a day at least, but I would guess that many don't do a 4K+ rpm drop clutch launch even once a year. I'm in the former group and I don't care that you can abuse a car to get a sub 5 second 0-60.

Does anyone have a 5-60 on the STI?

 

mid sixes (so, yes, you need a hard launch to get the silly numbers). thing about 5-60 is that it's a repeatable benchmark, but not how most people drive a turbo car (if they are driving it hard, they keep the turbo spooled by choosing the proper gear). it favors NA motors as they generally have higher compression and more power under the car. The R32 scores in the 5's for this test.

but yes, 0-60 is an arcane and useless measurement, but the one most oft reported

 

Well, it was (a) unrealistic to think a 1.6l motor would be making 240hp...that's 150hp/liter...and (b) unrealistic that to think that, even if it did have 240hp, it could get a Mini to 60 in less than 5 seconds and therefore be competitive to an AWD STI on paper.

 

PGT, you wanted a JCW, which would have <= total output than your R53 has now? GTFO.

I can appreciate your views on the STI. I want what the STI has--high output and a good AWD system--in my R53. If JCW is not going to work out, you can always put a "Let's Motor" license plate frame on one of these:

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/gall...2/IMG_7626.jpg

 

...which is exactly what BMW quotes for the JCW. Manufacturers quote conservative numbers so that they are attainable without abusing the drivetrain.

 

I have more power than that on my 1.6L. I never expected the JCW to be faster than an STI, but there was talk of a 2.0L and possibly AWD. The JCW got none of these. See my :letdown:?

I got impatient?

I have those same wheels for my MINI for winter. If my job situation was more like last year, I'd have a white STI in the driveway now (and the MINI in the garage for Sunday drives). My wife hated it until she sat in Mach V Dan's a few weekends ago. She doesn't hate it so much now.

 

Comparing modified motors to factory warranteed motors is opening up a whole new can of worms.

I don't see your 'letdown'. Some of us are happy that Mini is sticking to sub-2,600lb cars...and that means small motors and 2WD. As you've pointed out, there are already plenty of bigger and heavier AWD 4-cylinder cars on the market with bigger motors and more power...that will never drive like a Mini, even if they are faster on paper.

 

not just on paper

 

Whats the debate here? Don't want a JCW Mini, don't get it. There are faster cars that MINIs. We all know that. The MINI is an enthusiasts car. There a lot of fast/furious rockets out there... If that turns your crank, do it...

 

Since there have not been any factory R56 JCWs built yet, you can't make that claim...

 

the VW, the MS3, the STI....all enthusiasts cars. I've had a Subaru. I do like how the MINI drives better...I'm more about handling than speed, but in this day and age, there's no reason you can't have both. Forgive me for wanting both. It's ok if you are not as demanding for your dollar

you were referring to the specs on paper of the other cars:

I don't think I've ever compared performance of the full JCW car to the others. I'm saying it's not as big a jump over the Stg 2 as many had hoped. The Stg 1 numbers are lackluster (depending on what you read), so, it will be surprising if the Stg 2 is more than marginally better. With a bigger turbo and upgraded transmission, one could extrapolate that the car is making more than stated (maybe to separate it from the 1 Series...who knows?). Time will tell.

I'll say it again. I'd love to have an R56 JCW and an '08 STI in the driveway. Both are great, fun, capable rides.

 

it seems like you are saying that BMW, Edmunds, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Helix Motorsport and everyone else is wrong, but EVO Mag is the be all end all source and the only one who has correct numbers. sounds pretty ignorant to me.

 

dumb as a box of rocks, that's me

 

Factory JCW or not it will have the cold start rattling also.

 

Uhhh...I would just pass it off as your being a hopeless dreamer that just doesn't get it that AWD adds way too much weight and the FWD has it's limitations in terms of getting power to the road. As an EVO subscriber, I would also offer that they are so biased as to be unreliable, but the picts are great.
If you really want to have fun, get your hands on a Lotus Elise or Exige...best drive I've ever had the pleasure to sample.

 

What are you talking about? I don't have any of those problems!

 

yes, I must mean that- im not sure what they are called. the silver things on the side of the car

how are we going to get the JCW ones for our cars?

 

Seems to me that the R56 is designed to be the best available compromise between fun/handling/performance and fuel efficiency (if someone knows of a better option on this front, please let me know).

This is the main factor in why it'll most likely win my $ over other 4 banger hatches I've been considering, like A3 2.0T S-line, GTI 2-door, C30 V2 (ok this is a 5 cylinder), Civic Si (and this isn't a hatch), and WRX (which I was incredibly disappointed with).

Haven't seen any projections on MPG for the Factory JCW, but I'd be surprised if it didn't wind up walking on the "competition" (STI, R32, 135i) pretty comfortably in fuel efficiency. This may not be important to the majority here, but it seems to be a major concern for an ever growing portion of the car buying public, but maybe I'm deluded.

And maybe I'm ignorant, but 21 lb. for an 18" OEM wheel seems pretty damn light to me. The Challenge Spoke wheels (actually 18s in general) are not really my cup of tea anyways though, at least not on a daily driver.

All in all, the factory JCW sounds like it will be extremely fun and a pretty good value for a factory performance kit. Pretty sure you wind up over the projected 6.5-7K mark in parts alone building an R56 MCS w/ JCW Aero Kit, Stage I, Rotors, 18's , door sills, etc. w/o even considering the bigger turbo, beefier tranny & clutch, new pistons, and the other brake upgrades in the factory kit or the dealer install labor costs. If I wasn't addicted to options and looking for an significant upgrade in MPG over my R53 MCS, I'd probably be putting down my deposit on a factory JCW R56 as soon as MINI would let me.

JMHO, YMMV.

 

Just a clarification: the wheels are 17 inchers...

We can rehash this to death; I'm glad you're happy with the R56 JCW stage II, but for me, on paper, its best summed up as disappointing. This was the car I was anticipating a great deal, especially with BMW hinting that the JCW brand was going to become more like an "M" type vehicle, but it didn't happen.

I'll get some more track time with my current R53, and wait and see what the JCW R56 does on the track for the final word (I'm not optimistic), but I'm leaning toward eventually replacing my R53 with a 135i, as painful as that is for me to do. I really, really want to like the R56 JCW, so far, its not doing it for me.

 

"We can rehash this to death". There it is in your own words pal. The plain fact is that none of us know whether this car will be a resounding success or a damp squib until we actually get to drive it. I understand your frustration at not getting the JCW suspension and aero kit as standard on the car because I wanted them too but you know what, you can add both of them, I know I will be. And as previously stated we won't know till we drive it but I'd bet my mortgage that this factory car + JCW suspension would flog the **** out of any OEM R53 including the GP. It's always wise to keep in mind BMW's EXTREMELY conservative power and 0-60 figures. I'll also be adding some M7 goodies(intercooler, CAI) and Alta pipes just for that extra kick to mine and am confident that when I do I'll have an extremely capable performance car on my hands for a price I can live with. Then again, I could be completely wrong and end up wishing I went with the 135i or M Coupe.

 

I actually agree with most of that--but its the suspension thats the key. All the horsepower in the world means nothing without the extra bit of handling that its going to take to harness it effectively.

 

I agree, which is why I pointed out that the JCW suspension can be added for another $1500. To be honest when you consider the engine, drivetrain, brake, ECU, interior and wheel upgrades on this car the price is perfectly reasonable for what you get in my opinion.