do you think we will be able to retro fit any of the jcw parts . like the drivetrain stuff and the big brakes? maybe the turbo too or the pistons.

 

street price on the new STI is $34k. I'd say 90% of JCW Cooper's will be optioned to the same price. Driving experience is different for sure, though I wouldn't say one is better than another, merely different ways to have fun.

Let me add...I'd love to have both in the driveway

based on the dyno results shown so far, plenty of reason.

 

So what is new about this stage II?

My guess:
- new brakes
- new traction control system
- new suspension (or is this the same as the Stage I dealer kit?)
- new wheels
- new exhaust system (only the Clubman, on the hatch it's the same as the Stage I dealer kit)
- revised gearbox
- new air intake and ECU (air intake is the same as the Stage I dealer kit and presume ECU-kit too)
- ?? what else is new/modified

Will BMW still sell the Stage I dealer kit? Or is this the full replacement?

 

I really like the car, but it's more than I want to spend on a MINI. It'll be a great MINI, the best iteration of the car.

$29K gets you a car without xenons, suspension and possibly LSD (last I checked MF, they were saying that LSD would have to be added by the buyer).
Add those three things (which I'm putting on my pretty bare bones optioned MCS )and you are looking at a big ticket.

I'm glad that MINI puts out a performance version for people who want a MINI and want something a little faster than stock. This is a car for MINI lovers who appreciate a little exclusivity and added performance, not people looking for the best performer in the market at a certain price level.

 

The suspension on the factory car is completely stock and you actually don't get any suspension upgrades with the Stage I dealer kit anyway. Sport suspension or JCW suspension are available to add just like they are for a normal Cooper S.

Incorrect. The exhaust system on the JCW factory car is a full turbo catback exhaust system, the dealer kit is not.

The Stage I dealer kit will still be available from the dealer as per usual.

 

As it turns out with the addition to the factory car of the new DTC(Dynamic Traction Control) system, the addition if LSD would be pointless anyway as they're basically the same thing with one being electronic(DTC) and the other being mechanical(LSD). Apparantly the people who developed the car found that with LSD specced it was all a little too much and therefore didn't include it. Look on the bright side it's another $500 saved.

 

Umm, not entirely true ... DTC manages traction by cutting power to the wheel that's slipping, while LSD sends more power to the wheel with more traction. Also, I believe newer LSD systems are partially electronically controlled. DTC with LSD is not pointless, but with the two together, the DTC will kick in much less frequently. If I had to choose between the two, I'd take the LSD hands down.

 

Yeah, me too. On the R53 JCW, LSD was included--I'm wondering if the DTC does better with torque steer than the LSD, and maybe thats why they went that way instead (cost and weight may have also factored in). We'll have to see how it performs when some track hounds get ahold of it, but the DTC has the potential to slow you down more than an LSD. I THINK you'll be able to spec both, and I THINK the DTC can be turned off--not entirely sure though. If so, I'd rather have the LSD included, and DTC as an option that I could avoid. Again, we'll have to see how it functions in the real world to make some final conclusions.

 

Just going on what's being said over on motoringfile lads.

 

08 Sti 60 foot 1.8 quarter mile 13.5 35K base price

08 Factory JCW (projected) 60 foot 2.1 quarter mile 14.1

On a road course you don't accelerate from a dead stop so an STI will have a minimal acceleration advantage.

Motor trend tested new STI and the handling and braking were very weak.

Bottom Line:

The new factory car with JCW Suspension and LSD 31K will outperform an STI on almost any track and on a short track it's all over

What other car for 31k (new from the factory will beat this car around a track) I think the answer is nothing.

This car is an excellent performance bargain by today's standards.

 

Thanks Mozza! What exactly does catback mean? Catalyst at the back?

 

From my understanding, LSD doesn't really send more power, it's more just ensuring at least a minimum distribution of power by limiting how much one wheel can spin (or "slip") without the other. The extreme example is one wheel with contact, the other with none. With an open differential, the power basically goes the path of least resistance, which would be the wheel with no contact.

With an LSD both wheels would get power, but pretty sure the free wheel still gets more power. The LSD ensures that the other wheel gets power as well (at best for this case, they would get equal power with a locked differential)...but that doesn't take into account traction control. By braking one wheel it forces power to divert to the other (theoretically with an open differential I guess it divert more power than an LSD could). It's just kind of different ways to reach a similar effect.

As for DTC, the press release makes it sound like another DSC program that intervenes less.

 

DTC and LSD are two seperate things.

What I really wonder is how the (optional I presume) LSD will work with the standard EDL system. (first seen on the 135i)

 

Probably similarly to working with traction control. Is the EDL system just more brake control? It sounds like a specifically tuned DSC program to emulate an LSD. The 135 press release says it has brake control:
and the JCW one has this:

 

I suspect that there will be a way to turnoff the DTC system. Most electronic slip limiters rely on braking action to prevent spin. Just look at the videos of the 135i rapidly starting, the intermittent wheel hop is indicative of the braking action. I'll take the LSD anyday....

 

I've yet to read anything positive about the electronic LSD on the 335. Many enthusiasts were disappointed when it was announced that the 135 also would not get a true LSD. I have no reason to believe that this DTC/EDL combo will be equal or superior to a mechanical LSD in the JCW when it hasn't proven to be on the 335.

I think MINI did a pretty good job. It's not the end all performance machine but it's a great little package. I do think they dropped the ball by not including the JCW suspension or at least offering it as a factory built option for around $1,000.
And I would've liked to see something changed in the interior that isn't merely a factory option on any other MINI.

 

Time to wait and see what is being offered at the Geneva auto show. I'm still unclear as to what the suspension packages truly compromise. It sounds as if there is the stock sport suspension, the factory JCW suspension and ??? track variant.

 

I would have said 300hp rather than 270, but I share the sentiment entirely. If MINI offered substantial power and AWD in the JCW the STI talk would dry up really fast on this site. Like PGT, I see the merits of both cars, but since what I really want is a MINI with AWD and real power, if MINI closed that gap, I would basically forget about the STI overnight.

 

If people want a 300hp AWD car, then go buy the 3,400lb STI (for $6k more)! That's not what the Mini is supposed to be, either in terms of power, price, or overall driving experience. The Mini is a much smaller, 2,600lb car with a 1.6l motor...totally different animal.

 

....find one of the original SWB Audi Quattro Coupes and you will have your car. Personally, I would gladly buy the current S3 if it was offered stateside.

 

No thanks.
A car is not "supposed to be" anything other than what an automaker's marketing department decides it will be in order to maximize sales. Here is the proof. Any other perceived inherent corporate-driven character is fantasy. If BMW's marketroids decided that a 300hp AWD MINI would boost profits, then that model would be what that car is "supposed to be" as of the time that the decision was made.

Additionally, no one nostalgic for the low-powered FWD model would be forced to buy the high-powered AWD model, just as no one has to buy the horrid new wagon version.

 

^Very well said.

These discussions of what the MINI is "supposed to be" are beyond ridiculous...
All one can comment on is what they personally want in a car, and giving someone the advice to go and buy another car is not much help at all. Granted, I have seen many perhaps unwarranted expectations of the MINI by some, but that's an entirely different subject.

 

Exactly. BMW has a 300hp car at the $35k price point, and it's called the 135i. As I said, the Mini isn't supposed to be that car, so those complaining that it isn't should shop elsewhere.

 

Although it weighs as much as the STI, the 135i is not AWD. The 135i is another long, heavy car that someone who wants a MINI would not necessarily want. I have not seen anyone post in this thread that he/she wants the MINI to be a 135i.

 

The 135i isn't AWD because it doesn't need to be, neither to put its power down, nor to homologate it for WRC. The 135i does, however, provide similar performance and price as the STI, both of which are significantly higher than that of the Mini JCW.

I've seen many posts in the last few days unfairly comparing both the STI and 135i to the Mini JCW. The Mini JCW falls between the WRX and STI, and very close to the 128i, in terms of price and performance.