They offered me $22.5k on a 2013 WRX with 24k miles originally - this was already $500 more than I owed so I didn't fight for more.

I received a call from my MA a few days before my car reached NYC to notify me of the delay to Oct. Since then I've been checking in once a week via email politely to see if there are updates. I never mentioned that I had a secondary source of information regarding what is going on and until today never asked for anything but information.

I sent a polite email last night simply stating that due to the delay I'm running into costs due to the difference in fuel consumption and that since I drive so much (which they already know about) I was going to run into the unexpected service. I laid out what the costs were and asked if we could work something out. I mentioned that I had spoken with the dealerships sales manager one day that my MA was not in and was told that MINI 'planned to do something for those affected'.

My MA forwarded my email to the sales manager and it was approved in minutes. That was it, but my communications with my MA/Sales manager have been very patient and understanding from the get-go so YMMV.

 

Wow, this is interesting to me. Sadly, if you are not happy with the way it is being handled, then maybe the best option for you is to consider another brand/vehicle. I personally think that MINI is handling this with the best interest of the customer in mind. The situation can vary immensely between customers as to how this delay is affecting them that a blanket offer would not make any business sense. Those customers waiting longest or with the most impact should be compensated or helped more than someone who is having to wait maybe a week longer than they would have otherwise. This is also likely the reason that it is not made as a public announcement. If you had no idea what was going on and your MA told you that your MINI was going to be a few days or a week later than planned, why should MINI "pay" you anything, let alone give you "the full amount" or same help as someone whose new vehicle has been sitting at the port since the third week of July?

Sure, people on forums are going to talk. And if those few people who feel they are owed more because Joe Smith got more, then they can speak with their MA for more. However, the best resolution for each person is what makes them feel better about their purchase experience regarding the delay. And for that reason, MINI is going to keep it on a case by case basis.


This is spot on. I know it is not the best situation, but it happened and there is little that can be done now other than wait and voice your concerns to the dealer and see how the situation can be made better for each person individually.

I have a friend who is a MA here in So Cal, and interestingly, he said they have only two customers directly affected by this situation. In one case, the customer has been patient and the other is being compensated with some accessories and a bigger discount (it was a longer wait). He told me that they also have a customer who has a convertible that has been mysteriously held up at the Oxnard factory. It was built and completed almost two months ago, now, and MINI, NA has very little info on what the hold up is. It is unrelated to the EPA Certification as it is an R57/S. He told me that MINI has so far offered the customer below invoice pricing, extended maintenance, and multiple payments ... which I think is going well above and beyond. I have a lot of experience with VW, Land Rover, BMW and MINI over the years and I have to say that not many manufacturers would be offering as much or looking out for the customer as much as MINI has in this case. Certainly not VW and LR in my personal experience.

 

That each customer must re-negotiate now is the fundamental problem. How can I be pleased to know that whatever "compensation" I receive could have been a little more, if I had known to ask?

Why the big secret? Why doesn't MINI simply announce a compensation plan? Whatever budget they have allocated to this issue could be divided by the total number of expected car hold days and paid out accordingly. Any buyers who are still dissatisfied could then move on.

 

My experience with dealers:

The current dealer will say anything.
The Honda dealer tried emotional blackmail.
The Nissan dealer was working on hypnosis or something, definitely reading some books on black arts.
The last dealer wasn't completely honest about anything. I suspect they left my car unsafe.
The current dealer (trying to buy the previous car) was useless.
The Acura dealer was top notch. They shouldn't have stopped selling the Integra/RSX.
The Suzuki dealer, who was convicted for bugging, was fun, anyways.

 

The problem is if they say they can give $1000 worth of stuff to everyone affected then everyone affected will step forward and take $1000 worth of stuff. My MA said he had 6 customers affected so that's $6K spent by MINI at just one dealership.

If they say nothing and just wait for complaints maybe only 2 of the 6 will whine. They just "saved" $4000. Also if they can appease one for $500 then it only cost them $1500. That's just business.

I wish it was more equitable as well but that's the reality.

As for knowing what to ask for, I'm not saying what I was offered because I don't want anyone to feel screwed if they didn't get what I did. I also don't care what others got because I don't want to feel screwed either. I'm happy, that's all that matters in my transaction.

 

Thanks so much for the info! My car arrived at Port Hueneme on the 20th; however, I have not received one single call from my MA. The paperwork from my order states the vehicle would arrive on or before the 15th of September but that is not the case anymore with the EPA delay. Any idea on how I should reach out to my MA about this? Sorry for all the questions but it seems you have had a lot of communication with your MA, so I am just trying to see how I should talk to mine since she probably doesn't even know I know about this delay.

 

If you know (through the Owner's Lounge or tracking) for a fact that your MINI has arrived at the port, I would then reach out to your MA and let her know you see it is here in the US and ask her when she expects delivery. Trust me, she has to know about this delay. I have yet to meet anyone who works for MINI that is unaware of the situation. That opens the door for you to ask; "well, how is MINI handling this delay and what does that mean to the customer?" and "I was really looking forward to receiving my new MINI early or on xx/xx and now I am going to be inconvenienced by this delay. Is there any kind of compensation for the delay?". She may be thinking, or coached by management, to not bring up the subject. Especially for vehicles expected to arrive closer to 10/1. Then it becomes a phone call to you saying, "Hello Mr. Customer, I am sorry to inform you that there has been a slight delay at the port and your new MINI will be at the dealer on or around October 1st. I hope you can understand this is out of our control and we appreciate your patience during this very short delay.".

 

I second this - reach out to your MA. All of my communications with MINI were initiated by me. My MA only called me about the delay after I sent an email stating that I was able to find out my car was on a boat headed for NY and I asked when I could expect delivery. Since then I have still initiated all conversations - mostly it's a once weekly check in email asking if anything has changed. I stopped by to talk to someone in person the day after I got the delay call.

I wasn't going to ask for anything in regards to compensation until I realized that the 30k mile service was rapidly approaching on my current car. I figured they would want to protect their investment in the vehicle since they're still taking it in at the original trade in with ~6k more miles on it. While I planned on having the work done anyway I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask if they would cover it. If I didn't have that service coming up I wouldn't have asked for anything other than the car I ordered. It's not like my MA threw my keys into a lake and said 'you can't have this'.

 

I think people need to come to the realization that as they were taking orders for 2015 Minis that Mini knew at that time the cars would be delayed. They did not tell dealers so that orders would keep flowing. Finally as 2015 cars were landing at the ports they could no longer keep quiet, they had to let owners who were expecting to see their cars any day now, that there would be a 2 month delay. We were notified a few days after we had already filled out some delivery forms at the dealership and about to apply for our loan and put the old car up for sale.

- There are no new mysterious EPA tests required as some would like us to believe. All manufactures have to do these tests. These tests are all documented on the EPA website and Mini has done them for all the R series cars. EPA is not the cause of the delay.
- Mini has still not had the 2015 cars tested. They don't even get tested until next week. The Mini Hardtop is a large program and like any large program they have detailed schedules and plans. Testing and certification of the car is a major part of their plan. There is no way they just 'forgot' about EPA testing. There was no conversation like this... "hey Joe did you do the EPA testing? No, I thought you did. No I didn't do it, oh snap I knew we forgot something!" They have known for a long time the schedule was broken. I work on a similar large program and we plan for testing 2 years in advance and we know exactly what tests are needed and when. There is substantial planning that has to be done prior to any testing. If there is a problem you know well in advance.
- Does anyone think that it was just coincidence that they learned of this testing the exact same time the 2015's were being off-loaded at the dock? The EPA publishes a list each month of cars that are legal to sell in the US and they knew that the 2015 Hardtop would not be on the Aug list. Again, they did not even plan for the testing until late Aug. It could NOT be on the list. Mini knows the process from testing to paperwork to approval takes 6 weeks, so if they had not tested the car by early Jun they would not be approved to sell in Aug. That is before they started taking 2015 orders.
- By the time they had no choice but to own up to the delay, the delivery times on new orders would be about a normal lead time for a custom car. In other words, people ordering cars after 1 Aug could expect to get the car in Oct anyway. So this way they limited the impact to only those who were first to order 2015's. If they had told those ordering 2015's back in Jun that the cars wouldn't be available until the 1st week of Oct I'm sure they would have lost a lot of orders. We would have never ordered if we knew.
- There is so little info on this because the story looks really bad for Mini. People think they are treating these customers so well, but in reality they were keeping us and probably their dealers, in the dark until they could no longer do so. This way they minimized impacts to orders. Now they tell us how they want to make it up to us for the delays caused by the EPA. Easy to make it seem it is EPA's fault and not Mini's.
- If this was indeed a surprise to Mini as the cars were coming off the ships than they must have the poorest program managers in the auto industry. The only people surprised by this are the customers and the dealers.

I wish they would just own up to things and explain the facts, but as was stated earlier, it is not in their interest to do so. It is what it is now. But Mini comes off as helping us through this unexpected delay but in reality it must have been expected for some time.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this to me. It is a great help. I will contact my MA this next week and see where the conversation goes.

 

Rocket man....Thanks for that detailed explanation. I sent it to my MA as you have unravelled the mystery of the EPA and Mini. I guess I now can expect delivery mid-October.............

 

Very clearly thought, Rocket_man.

 

It's also been almost a month since they said they would be coming out with an official statement. It's always coming out "soon." Heck, I was told on July 31 by a MINI USA rep that it would be coming out "today or tomorrow." I wonder if they are intentionally waiting until closer to October to say anything.

 

You have a lot of good theories in there but I'm afraid you're missing a key piece. (I've been watching way too much Midsomer Murders on Netflix.) If the delay is not due to the lack of EPA testing then what is it due to? This is important because these cars are sitting in distribution centers where they are an expense to MINI and not either covering their cost of manufacture nor generating a profit. Were there a massive safety issue, I suspect they wouldn't have been built in the first place but they were, Troy. Built and shipped.

Not filing with the EPA could have been purposeful to disguise the real reason for the delay, yet the cost in non-moving inventory and bribing waiting customers must be enormous. If it's a minor safety issue, I'd expect a release and patch later strategy unless it's dire. Then I'd imagine it to be more cost effective to stop production and ensure the cars won't kill anyone. 2014s would be affected as well in either case, which, they, aren't. (That was my best Tom Barnaby impression.)

As implausible as someone forgetting to submit paperwork to the EPA is, it's the theory which best fits the facts we have.

In any case you did have a lot of good points and it is a fun read!

 

Another piece of this mystery that seems a little odd is the very short 2014 model run. When I bought my 2008 Mini, the 2008's weren't even available until Dec. '07 or Jan. '08. I was surprised to learn in June of this year that I could already order a 2015 model.

Perhaps Mini's error was to discontinue the 2014 model so soon, before the 2015's were EPA approved. If some within MINI assumed that their 2015's would not be available for sale until Nov. or Dec., as is the usual case, then this EPA timing would be fine.

Why did they designate July and August builds as 2015 models? They didn't have to and there seems to be no business case for it either.

 

All of these "facts" would have had to be known at least a year ago to the brass at BMW/MINI. Engineering, Manufacturing, Production, Marketing, all the way up to the CEO. Why would they go with a plan that involves a ton of expense rather than something simpler like delaying the 2015 intro by a couple of months and extending the 2014 production a couple of months. The 2014 is virtually the same car and a large majority of the people now waiting for cars being stored would have bought them. More importantly whatever the real screw up is would be held internal without all the speculation.


We can all speculate but we will never know the real story.


Stay calm and enjoy your car when you finally get it.

 

The short (US) production run of 2014 models was due to production delays and demand in the UK, which had priority. I don't believe that the EPA Certification shows 2014 F56 models being certified either which could be escalating the issue. Given all the delays and issues earlier this year, I am sure that MINI now wishes it had just waited longer and released the vehicle as a 2015 and had no 2014 model Hardtop.

Model Year changeover has always been July/August for the Oxford facility. 2008 models were produced as of August 2007 - why you could not order or get one earlier than December 2007/January 2008 would have had something to do with the model (Clubman and Convertible models run different production cycles) you were buying or the dealer you were doing business with and their allocation.



Agreed.


STAY CALM

and

MOTOR ON!

 

Wonderful theory, but pure rampant speculation.

My 2009 R56 was delivered in the first week of Oct 2008. It was the first deliveries of the 2009 model year -- I specifically ordered a 2009 with my dealer. I don't remember when the order went in, but the production was the first week for the 2009.

The 2009 did not undergo EPA testing. The certification carried over from the 2008.

Certainly someone goofed at Mini. I have no idea if they missed new tests (I doubt it), or if because of some change they made required new certification. I think that's the case with the S as there's a new engine designation for the super low emissions. As far as I know, there's no change for the non-S.

But everyone is getting all too wrapped up in this.

Cancel your order if you are not happy.

Wait if you want.

I don't necessarily agree that they shouldn't offer the exact same compensation to all affected based on some formula. I even said so to Mini's VP of sales -- who replied to several emails. To me, and as far as I know, to all who emailed him. I seriously doubt that if GM or Ford screwed up, and you emailed the equivalent VP, you'd get a response.

And I got long detailed, non canned responses -- i.e. they read what I said, and responded to it. I've said it before, and I'll say it one more time:

Stuff happens. Most customers measure more how the company responds to it, than the "stuff" that happened.

It was explained to me that Mini is a different company with different customers. And your issues with the delay will be different than mine. Hence, their plan to deal with it on an individual basis. I may not fully agree, but I accept this.

Mini never said there was an official statement coming. I read this on motoringfile.com, which many did. But, while they obviously have contacts, they are not Mini.

I am disappointed that the letter I say from Mini that someone posted has never reached me. This I find a bit odd. But, as I said, I've been in email contact with Mini since the beginning, and proposed a "fix" to make me happy, and they said yes. I'm not going into details now, but I'll spill the beans when I get my car.

Has this been a Cluster F? Sure. Did they do it on purpose, I don't know (and neither do you) but I seriously doubt it.

I just think a lot of you should drink more wine (I'm having a glass of rose as I type this), and do a lot less whining

And if you think I'm happy, I'm not. That's why I changed my signature page last weekend -- but I'm trying to have some fun. Six weeks is nothing. The big bad 6oh (can't even type the number) birthday that is happening to me next week is bad. My birthday present to myself is just delayed for a bit.

After all of this, I need my second glass... later all.

 

Not to be contrary, but speak for yourself. Sadir Haji, MINI USA National Sales and Aftersales Manager, very specifically told me on the the phone that a statement was coming "today or tomorrow." That was July 31st. I don't think he lied. I think he was told or expected a statement was coming, but obviously he is not the Grand Puba of press releases. Someone has decided not to issue one, at least not yet.

 

Touché

 

Sorry Becky. I obviously was speaking for myself

 

I have no doubt the delay is due to uncompleted EPA testing. The copy of the letter I received says "... Engineers are working diligently with the EPA to complete testing and to arrive at a certified MPG rating as soon as possible."

But it is the manufacturer that has to deliver cars for testing, the EPA doesn't go out and buy them. Somewhere earlier in this thread or another, Mini sent 3 cars to EPA or whatever test facility early in Aug. The test is scheduled for 25 Aug and it is a 3 day test. So if the original plan was to sell 2015 cars on 1 Aug, backing up the timeline, the test cars should have been delivered some time in early Jun actually. When that didn't happen they had to have known at that time they could not make the Aug list. But they did not own up to the delay until 1 Aug (don't remember the exact date)

I have not been able to find any evidence of F56 testing ever on the 2014's on the EPA website. Not to say that doesn't exist, but I can't find it. Lots of R generation test documentation, but none on the F56's. They may have had some special authority to sell them using their own testing or some sort of waiver, but then they would had to know that they had to be official someday, and again I don't think that would have been a last minute surprise.

It could all be an unfortunate alignment of the model year change over in the Oxford plant, and the short run of 2014's... but whatever the reason... my point is that Mini had to have known of the delay long before they told customers and dealers and very likely even while people were putting deposits on 2015 orders.

There seemed to be a better plan in place back in 2008/2009 model change over. Yes the EPA testing of the 2008 model should have carried over to the 2009's, but it is not even clear that Mini even had the 2014's tested.

According to the letter I got the testing is mileage related, not emissions. But maybe the test does both???

Yes Stuff Happens and sometimes can't be avoided. I'm not arguing that, but the response has been very lacking, both in being upfront back when they initially knew about the delays (which I'm sure was well before 1 Aug) and after the delays were announced. As was stated earlier in this thread, it would not have been in Mini's best interest to let people know about the delay as soon as they knew. It would have affected 2015 orders. But now they come across as if they are responding to something they could not predict when in fact they knew several months if not even longer before the announcement. Customers placed orders and wrote deposit checks in good faith that their cars would be delivered in a normal timeframe, but in fact they must have known that they would be 2 months longer.... at least.

Just look at the calendar. If the test is completed on 28 Aug, add 5-6 weeks and where is that? AFTER 1 Oct. So it will take some expediting of the process to make the 1 Oct list. That would be another 1 month delay to 1 Nov. Not saying that will happen, but there is certainly risk behind that 1 Oct date.

We only got the letter because our MA e-mailed it to us.

Hopefully you can still enjoy your big 6-oh. Maybe your MA will give you a loaner on your b-day??? My wife's car was set to arrive just prior to her b-day and I have some accessories sitting in the box waiting to be installed as a b-day gift. So she'll open those before the car arrives.

 

I don't agree at all. We have brains designed for this exact sort of thing.

 

I downloaded the list 2014 and 2015 car test listings from the EPA. These lists are current as of 26 Jun 2014. It is a list of all cars sold in the US, model, engine type, transmission type, etc.. including test results. They are huge and I cut out over 90% of the data and made PDF files of just the Mini entries. If you want to see the full lists you can download them here...

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/tcldata.htm

On the 2015 model year list there are no F56 vehicles as expected. But you can see all the other 2015 model year Minis listed as far as I can tell.

On the 2014 model year list there are 2 Mini Cooper S F56 cars tested, one manual and one automatic. They are listed as B48 engines. Other 2014 model year cars carried over to the 2015 list but not these. There are no B38 based cars tested for the 2014 list.

So it does appear that the MCS with the B48 engine was tested, but maybe the changes they made to make it a B46 invalidated these tests? You would think they would have known if those changes would invalidate the tests. If the B38 had been tested for the 2014 year and there were no changes made to the engine then these cars should not have had a problem and they would not have been delayed. Not sure how they were allowed to be sold without being tested.

 

There are no 2.0l MINIs on the 2014 list, when I download them from here:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/tcldata.htm

Oh, wait, I see them.