Drivetrain 231.9WHP with new big valve head. Stock cam and ECU.
been away for a while and I gotta say that catching up here is a sad day of reading........
I, for one, am baffled that there's talk of a "best head" on this level. And even the tests that are contemplated... Flow bench or quarter mile, don't address things like longevity of parts and the like, so they're incomplete at best.
I am baffled why there isn't room for more happy vendors/customers/local markets and the like.
Oh well....
Matt
I, for one, am baffled that there's talk of a "best head" on this level. And even the tests that are contemplated... Flow bench or quarter mile, don't address things like longevity of parts and the like, so they're incomplete at best.
I am baffled why there isn't room for more happy vendors/customers/local markets and the like.
Oh well....
Matt
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must...do...homework
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From: Hollywood, Ca.
The reason a real world e.t. is logicaly better is that there are a number of things that can be done to make a less powerful car "artificially" pull 280hp on a dyno,....but nothing (besides a gale force tail wind) can make a slow car "accidently" run a 12 sec. e.t. (take lying, nitrous, and downhill runs out of the equation for the sake of argument). We're not worried about the few things that can slow you down, (like a driver sucking, in which case he/she shouldn't even be in the market for a new cylinder head until he/she refines the basic skill set needed to adequately run through the gears-----and yes, even if your launch has you spinning for a full second, your mph should be about the same), we're worried about the few things that can "artificially" speed you up (nothing,...as long as the conditions are listed, we'll make adjustments), or in the case of a dyno (a number of things),...add a hundred ponies. It's hard to believe that no one with an aftermarket head has any real world data measuring pre and post head delta's. I've never met a more dyno happy bunch in my life. Someone PLEASE, go drive their car and come back with something other than "wow, it's a big difference". .....and don't say it doesn't matter, because if it didn't, then it would've never been put on a dyno. The dyno is a tool to give you an "idea" of what your car would do if you actually DROVE it.
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From: Hollywood, Ca.
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
...I, for one, am baffled that there's talk of a "best head" on this level. And even the tests that are contemplated... Flow bench or quarter mile, don't address things like longevity of parts and the like, so they're incomplete at best.
I completely agree, however, the debate wasn't started with durability or longevity involved,...it was strictly "I make "X" amount of horsepower.
...I, for one, am baffled that there's talk of a "best head" on this level. And even the tests that are contemplated... Flow bench or quarter mile, don't address things like longevity of parts and the like, so they're incomplete at best.
I completely agree, however, the debate wasn't started with durability or longevity involved,...it was strictly "I make "X" amount of horsepower.
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I think NAM owes my employer about 6 hours worth of my paycheck for this thread alone
Steve
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Our S eng and box is the same as an 05, we do have a quaife diff and a Exedy clutch and flywheel, our cam is a street cam, our ex man is a 4-1 and our exhaust system is a one ball stock system, the ecu is stock as a rock. and we have JCW 380cc injectors and of course we now have the Fireballed head.
So really no different than a lot off people hear and we only saw 219.9whp on the dyno so if anything we have a lot less than the others here.
With dyno racing we can claim what we like but at the moment we are one of the few who can back up these claims with a time ticket.
All Jesus head / LDG cars should run 106+ depending on their weight as they are producing a lot more than us.
I believe that all these cars are pretty equal power wise, so wouldn't be brillant to see all these high 12sec 106mph+ Minis (there must be 50 by now in Cali) turn up at a drag strip and duke it out just for a laugh, because at the end of the day we are all gear heads wanting more power and what an excellent way to spend a day/evening with a bunch of like minded people.
So really no different than a lot off people hear and we only saw 219.9whp on the dyno so if anything we have a lot less than the others here.
With dyno racing we can claim what we like but at the moment we are one of the few who can back up these claims with a time ticket.
All Jesus head / LDG cars should run 106+ depending on their weight as they are producing a lot more than us.
I believe that all these cars are pretty equal power wise, so wouldn't be brillant to see all these high 12sec 106mph+ Minis (there must be 50 by now in Cali) turn up at a drag strip and duke it out just for a laugh, because at the end of the day we are all gear heads wanting more power and what an excellent way to spend a day/evening with a bunch of like minded people.
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
The reason a real world e.t. is logicaly better is that there are a number of things that can be done to make a less powerful car "artificially" pull 280hp on a dyno,....but nothing (besides a gale force tail wind) can make a slow car "accidently" run a 12 sec. e.t. (take lying, nitrous, and downhill runs out of the equation for the sake of argument). We're not worried about the few things that can slow you down, (like a driver sucking, in which case he/she shouldn't even be in the market for a new cylinder head until he/she refines the basic skill set needed to adequately run through the gears-----and yes, even if your launch has you spinning for a full second, your mph should be about the same), we're worried about the few things that can "artificially" speed you up (nothing,...as long as the conditions are listed, we'll make adjustments), or in the case of a dyno (a number of things),...add a hundred ponies. It's hard to believe that no one with an aftermarket head has any real world data measuring pre and post head delta's. I've never met a more dyno happy bunch in my life. Someone PLEASE, go drive their car and come back with something other than "wow, it's a big difference". .....and don't say it doesn't matter, because if it didn't, then it would've never been put on a dyno. The dyno is a tool to give you an "idea" of what your car would do if you actually DROVE it.
They don't have any drag race schools out here that I know of, they're all road racing. None of us (I can speak for myself, Longboard, and Gnatster who I know road races) even really care about drag racing... the MINI makes a great canyon carver, but FWD cars just aren't designed for launching
. I couldn't care what my car runs in the 1/4 mile, I never understood why people got a *****because their car went 1/4 of a mile .16 seconds faster than another person
... I agree that dyno's can be deceptive, but we're comparing delta's, not actual figures.
To each their own, but this thread was created to compare HP delta's not to compare drag times. Feel free to discuss with the people who do drag race, but keep it civil.
Last edited by Sam; May 10, 2007 at 11:13 AM. Reason: inappropriate sexual reference
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^^ Not to disagree but I think pauls point is. If El_D and LDG/DMH were to be bringing their cars to the strip it wouldn't be with first time drag racers. Clearly both of these tuners know people that know how to drag well enough where driver wouldn't really be a cause for concern in et's and top speeds.
judging by El_D's stroker monster and LDG/DMH's pride in their racing results... it's pretty evident that's what's being hinted at.
judging by El_D's stroker monster and LDG/DMH's pride in their racing results... it's pretty evident that's what's being hinted at.
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
^^ Not to disagree but I think pauls point is. If El_D and LDG/DMH were to be bringing their cars to the strip it wouldn't be with first time drag racers. Clearly both of these tuners know people that know how to drag well enough where driver wouldn't really be a cause for concern in et's and top speeds.
judging by El_D's stroker monster and LDG/DMH's pride in their racing results... it's pretty evident that's what's being hinted at.
judging by El_D's stroker monster and LDG/DMH's pride in their racing results... it's pretty evident that's what's being hinted at.
. Where's the comparision to a 240 whp SCed car... Not sure at all why everyone cares about drag racing the two tuners cars, start a new thread, this thread is about the head.
Last edited by Guest; May 10, 2007 at 12:31 PM.
you aren't really following pauls posts very much i guess.
paul is asking for similar modded cars to make it to the drag strip to prove capability. I never saw dyno's of el_d's moster in this thread so it's capability has little to do with it other then proving his proximity to people that are connrected in the 1/4 mile scene.
he's more or less asking for one of the heysoos headed cars out there (for example one of the ones providing dyno plots that are being discussed), to be compared to ldg's (or more specifically dmh's car) similar car (which also has dyno plots posted).
this is of little use now as I guess the hysoos cars are running around un-tuned. It's currently like apples to oranges... I guess only time will tell.
paul is asking for similar modded cars to make it to the drag strip to prove capability. I never saw dyno's of el_d's moster in this thread so it's capability has little to do with it other then proving his proximity to people that are connrected in the 1/4 mile scene.
he's more or less asking for one of the heysoos headed cars out there (for example one of the ones providing dyno plots that are being discussed), to be compared to ldg's (or more specifically dmh's car) similar car (which also has dyno plots posted).
this is of little use now as I guess the hysoos cars are running around un-tuned. It's currently like apples to oranges... I guess only time will tell.
Last edited by minimusprime; May 10, 2007 at 10:33 AM.
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From: Hollywood, Ca.
I agree, I don't think ANYBODY cares what someones e.t. is, but we ALL want to know the change in that persons e.t. pre and post head!!! So even if they suck leaving the line, as long as they suck the same with the new cylinder head we will have a clean delta. I don't even care to compare it to another builders head, I just want a straight shooting delta from pre to post install. Just seems more accurate than "really fast" is faster than "half fast".
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From: Flitwick UK
Rustyboy, you would run the same mph in your car as I would, if you read my earlier post with the 2.4 60ft the majority of the et loss is in the 60ft.
You should be able to run the same if not quicker than the above 60ft leavng at 2500, I believe I remember why that 60ft was so bad now, I believe I left the line and moved my hand from the handbrake to the steering wheel instead of the gearstick to pull 2nd
I cant wait to start doing some road course days at Silverstone etc etc and I'm really not good round bends but at leastI'll be alright down the straight
You should be able to run the same if not quicker than the above 60ft leavng at 2500, I believe I remember why that 60ft was so bad now, I believe I left the line and moved my hand from the handbrake to the steering wheel instead of the gearstick to pull 2nd
I cant wait to start doing some road course days at Silverstone etc etc and I'm really not good round bends but at leastI'll be alright down the straight
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From: Fresno Ca.
^^ Not to disagree but I think pauls point is. If El_D and LDG/DMH were to be bringing their cars to the strip it wouldn't be with first time drag racers. Clearly both of these tuners know people that know how to drag well enough where driver wouldn't really be a cause for concern in et's and top speeds.
judging by El_D's stroker monster and LDG/DMH's pride in their racing results... it's pretty evident that's what's being hinted at.
judging by El_D's stroker monster and LDG/DMH's pride in their racing results... it's pretty evident that's what's being hinted at.
What the heck does this have to do with buying a head??? People buy these aftermarket parts to get alittle more fun out of their cars, not to drag race. Must of us are driving our cars around town, going to Jack in the Box, not dragging everything! If you want to drag race why would you own a Mini???? To say you have the quickest Mini in town? Lol the first time a souped up WRX or EVO came up next to you, then what?? This thread has gotten so far off it's silly.
but alas... im wasting my breath as... if you didn't understand my post or paul's for that matter... you just don't understand. You can go buying parts on good will and some one blowing smoke up your ****... alot of people do so... even me on occasion... most people came to this thread trying to find proof... granted there is very little of that here, on both accounts...
I don't usually point fingers and say... hey that guy is totally off base... but your post seemed very silly to me.
Last edited by minimusprime; May 10, 2007 at 12:35 PM.
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From: Flitwick UK
What the heck does this have to do with buying a head??? People buy these aftermarket parts to get alittle more fun out of their cars, not to drag race. Must of us are driving our cars around town, going to Jack in the Box, not dragging everything! If you want to drag race why would you own a Mini???? To say you have the quickest Mini in town? Lol the first time a souped up WRX or EVO came up next to you, then what?? This thread has gotten so far off it's silly.
If someone claims to have 240whp but can only run 100mph in a 2600lb car, guess what he hasn't got 240whp.
THE DRAGSTRIP IS THE ONLY REAL WORLD DYNO
Its just as well Jan is Jan, because could you imagine if this was a scam how many people would of been duped, how did you know that they didnt have 17hp nitrous going through it on that dyno pull????
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From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
What the heck does this have to do with buying a head??? People buy these aftermarket parts to get alittle more fun out of their cars, not to drag race. Must of us are driving our cars around town, going to Jack in the Box, not dragging everything! If you want to drag race why would you own a Mini???? To say you have the quickest Mini in town? Lol the first time a souped up WRX or EVO came up next to you, then what?? This thread has gotten so far off it's silly.
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