It's OK - I understand what you and Paul are getting at.

Look, there are variables at both the dyno and the drag strip. I've seen huge differences in the same car at different dynos. After five years and many trips to the dyno in several cars I would only consider them as a baseline/delta kind of thing. Want to feel good about your mods - use a dynojet. Want to be humbled by the dyno - put your car on a Mustang. I've run my car on both plus a dynapack to boot.

I don't think Jan would have a problem with someone doing a before and after at the strip. Using the same car, with the only difference being the head, with the same driver, with similar track conditions should yield very interesting results.

Nick - It looks like your Madness Stage IV car and your current one put down comparative hp. Having said that, what advantages does Jan's head have over George's?

Or am I missing something - are the mods between the two cars, with the exception of the head, comparable?

 

Wow I'm glad there is one person on NAM who gets it

My wife gets really pissed with me that I have to prove everything I sell not only on the dyno but I have to verify these figures at the strip as well, this is why I probably not be a millionaire and a lot of manufactures will not like me

 

Depends - My IX was dyno'd at 231 bone stock. The tuner (who makes his living race-prepping Evos, STis and Porsches) claimed this was on the high end.

FWIW this was on a dynapack. On a dynojet, my car dyno'd at 251. A mustang yielded 226.

Once the car was modded, the variations between the dynos remained the same. The dynojet was consistently 10% or so higher than the other two.

My modded 03 MCS pulled 235 on the dynojet and 211 and 209 on the dynapack and mustang respectively.

 

I don't drag race my car... I could care less about how it performs on the drag strip. Most weekends you'll find me on an autoX course or on VIR... previously on Elkhart Lake...

As a road racer im still interested in how these engines perform on the strip. My car will never be on a drag strip... but since I've seen such a variance in dyno plots... at this point I'm hesitant to believe anything but 1/4 times.

edit: The truth is most of these parts are so close in performance there is barley a way to test truly which part is superior. The difference is most likely within the variance from one pull to another on a dyno.

 

Call me crazy but I never intended to do a before an after dyno when I purchased the head. Jan wanted the info for his R&D so I said sure. Hell, he was paying. When my before dyno pulled 193WHP, I was stoked but not surprised. I always felt my car was strong. When Jan and I dynoed my car the next day after the head install, I was hoping for around 220WHP. When the 231.9WHP pull happened I was just standing there shaking my head with a big big . It just kept pulling harder all the way to Red line. I was amazed and totally stoked. I told Jan I was going to share on NAM. He said, get ready for all hell to break out. Boy did it.

I did allot of research and chose Jan's head to go with. My intention was to add some more fun into my car. I really didn't care nor was my intention to come on to NAM pounding my chest like a monkey claiming how great my car is.

The debate of how to test and who should test doesn't interest me at all. The idea of having a one day head shot out really makes me . Do you really think all the head vendors would show up to a head off? I don't. They have to much to loose if they get pounced.

I got my head so I could play with faster cars in the canyons behind my house. I am a very very very happy customer of RMW and have gotten more then I ever expected from my purchase. I can't wait to get back from this trip so I can go back to driving my car for the reason I purchased the head. On Saturday before I left, I got the chance to play with a Evo MR. I was behind him stuck to his bumper threw three gear changes. I was pulling on him in fourth before we both had to let off. The look on his face was worth all the BS that I have gotten on this thread.

It's all about having fun .

Longboard

 

Wow the cat is out of the bag now .

 

Amen to that .

 

Perhaps we should all drop our pants and pull out a ruler? In the end, thats all this is about more or less...

 

the root of the issue is do your research before you buy. A flat out comparison won't happen. For that to happen a lot of proprietary infomation has to show it's face, and neither camp really wants that for their own product.

What I was getting at is if you want a real comparison... it's clear a dyno does nothing for peoples beliefs. It's going to have to be proven by yourself. If you are really in the head market, learn what you need and what you need to know. It's not a small amount of money and no post on any forum is going to give you the break down... of how "YOU" should go about it.

I'm glad for those that are happy with their purchases on each side of the camp. I'm happy for competition for the top spot performance wise, that benefits us all. I hope that future customers of said vendors... are happy as well. And please please, if you are looking to buy call whatever vendor you want to purchase from and talk to them. Don't just put your money down on a hunch or a pipe dream, alot of pioneers in the mini tuning community have done that already for us. There are alot of parts for sale in the market place to prove it, and those cars are still progressing.

 

There we are..."It's all about having fun ." !! It was a pretty good and funny/ heated 46 pages though, you have to admit!! I think a lot was the aggressive heat and BS from just a few guys!! The net rocks... till there is a guy out west and a guy in the East/ NW ... ect, and there is no way they all can go to one dyno and see the HP... no matter what Dyno is used!! one will be better and that is the end.... but not on the net... we get to listen to all the "shoulda-woulda's" !! great fun!! and a lot of deep thought went into a lot of statements.. LOL

Now let us all go back and read the first 45 pages and see if the final statment by Longboard wasnt made WAAaayyyy... back!! "Its all about having fun!!"

Just me................................................ ....

Thumper

 

Okay let me get this straight, If Jan was to dyno his customers cars that wouldn't be good enough because dyno's can be manipulated. If they were to run their cars on a drag strip that wouldn't be good enough because nobody was there to witness it. Hmm, I know why don't you come down to California this weekend and check one out for yourself, would that work? What would satisfy all the na sayers here? Paul did you demand Cosworth to prove that their head is what they said it was? Yes I know there are vendors out there that say anything to make money. But where does all this negativity end? Luckily I live near RMW so when Im ready to buy I can check it out personally.

 

Bingo! And I for one am glad that you are having fun. I am having fun watching you have fun via this thread. Plus I enjoy a good pizzing match but won't pursue this line further.

The other important thing for everyone to remember is that there is more than 1 way to have fun whether its w/ Jan(RMW), or John(LDG), or Don(DMH) or Peter (M7), ect.................................

 

Because then people would moan about the choice of ruler, ambient temp etc..

 

There's more to drag racing than has been discussed here.... AND IT CAN BE A TON OF FUN. Ask Mr. Webster. Here is a quick & dirty to figure HP http://www.golenengineservice.com/html/calculators.html & http://www.speedworldmotorplex.com/calc.htm . Drag racing is all about power & how the power gets to the pavement.

+1 The other important thing for everyone to remember is that there is more than 1 way to have fun whether its w/ Jan(RMW), or John(LDG), or Don(DMH) or Peter (M7), ect................................. Thanks Bart
Lets not forget Thumper. I hear on the best of sourses that his head & service is a gooder too!

 

Matt, there is all kinds of room for any number of vendors to sell their wares to the MINI community. Where the conflict starts is when vendor(s) decide to fly into a thread that was talking about a product (the little devil's head) that seemed to threaten what they were offering. Then things got messy and smelly real fast. (And are continuing to get messy and smelly....)

 

Oh no, it doesn't end THAT easy!!! I DEMAND to know who can get to the Jack-in-the-Box the quickest!!! .....just kidding. I will have my head on soon, and I can only hope to be as stoked as longboard is with his. Shouldn't be hard, as I'm already pretty excited about my Mini as it sits. Enjoy.

 

+2

 

And level of excitement (or non-excitement)....

 

LMAO .

 

Here is a scan of the dyno graph shown at MOTD this past weekend. The car used is an '02 MCS with a 17% pulley, GIAC flash, JCW injectors, Helix CAI, and Borla Exhaust. The baseline was with the mods just mentioned, and the test run was with RMW's "Jesus" cylinder head. There were no changes to tuning, the only change is the head. Iggy is confirming whether these were raw uncorrected runs or SAE corrected runs, as I know Eric likes to do uncorrected dyno pulls.

Enjoy!
Ryan



As you can see, 15 wLb-Ft peak gain and 33 wHP peak gain are mighty impressive! Not only does the Jesus head out power the stock setup as low RPM, you can see the VE is improved up on the top of the RPM band too, very impressive!

 

"I was in the pool!!!"

 

Thanks Ryan! One of the best Posts in this thread, It does look like an uncorrectd pull. -- Johan

 

brings new meaning to on the pill too...

 

EDIT: The dyno graph above is indeed confirmed to be UNCORRECTED raw pulls, and the ambient temp was 10F hotter during the test run, so keep that in mind.

 

thats a good thing, not a bad thing!