First off, These are my estimates only, and may be wayyyyyyy off. If anyone has good data, I'll start some sort of table to really summarize. But real data is scant, and I don't have a dyno!

I made two tables. one with sceptical HP add numbers, one with , uh aggressive numbers. This isn't perfect, consider it a guide for the eye, but it does show some interesting trends.......

Flame away!!!!!





Comments anyone? I don't really expect any.....


Matt

 

New spark plug wires get me 1 to 2 HP?

Why don't I believe that?

 

European car did a build up, and I think it was plugs or wires that got them some smoother operation at redline with a pullied car. The idea is as boost goes up the stock ignition may start to run out of legs. leading to poor spark and reduced power. But if you still don't believe it, and give them no HP, then they go to an infinite $ per HP! IE crappy mod.

I don't know if I believe it either, ask the Nology crowd. Many of them are happy for the $100+ those wires cost!
Matt

 

I for one would not trade spark duration for increased spark intensity. Yes, capacitive wires produce a big hot (and short) spark like an MSD. However the MSD produces a LOT of hot sparks over 20 degrees of crank rotation, and the Nology wires give you just... one. They do look cool though. You'd need an extra thick flamesuit if you tried to list $/coolness.

 

Is the "MTH" the MTH software tweaking? I think you have your $$$ figure wrong. More like $78 than $178 I believe. One of the members of my local group has done 3 recently, all for $72. Exchange rate is good right now.


-- Jay

 

You might get to $178 if you include the cost of buying your own cable. Drop it by $100 if you have friends :smile:

 

True! I forgot that not everybody has a little help from their friends!

Jay

 

If you install the pulley yourself then the cost per hp is by far the cheapest.

cost of pulley $119
Low estimate of hp $14.87 $/hp
High estimate of hp $7.93 $/hp

Fun to install too

Nik

 

Did someone say flame throwers???





Thought that I would share...

 

but it was my post, and I did pay for the pully install! Only thing I did pay to have installed. But anyway,

I learned that the intake IS a good value, even if you don't do a Hot Air Intake.

I learned that ICs and ported SCs may have good impacts, but it really costs to gain the benefit. you should have crossed most of your mods off your list before you get to these.

For all the GIAC and UniChip people, yes, you probably CAN get more benefit, but it's gonna cost you! IF you borrow a cable, MTH is the best you can do!

These exhaust systems are pretty much overpriced from a performance standpoint. If I can get my el-cheapo exhaust done for $200, and it gets me the 10 HP some others claim, then the exhaust becomes cost effective. But the are expensive, and you can better spend your money elsewhere.

Matt

 

Hey Doc:

I have to disagree with your numbers - my reasoning is as follows:

1. If I made my own pulley out of old Fresca cans and put it on myself the cost per hp would by $0.56.

2. If I talked my neighbor into buying an AGS and then stole it off of his front porch the cost per hp would be $0.00.

3. I have seen dynos that prove that the MTH makes 4.91 hp not 5 as you state on your low estimate chart. Please note this when you make corrections.

Seriously, thanks for the time and the effort. Brace yourself for pages of nitpicking...............

 

I'm sure it will all have value laden content!

Matt

 

Sold my rear seats to a fella in NY for 300 bucks, and got what should equate to 2+ hp out of the deal.

 

you left out some of the most interesting items:

plasma booster (can't divide by zero)
AGS (can't divide by nothing)
twin charger (5000/100=50)
cylinder head mod (2000(with labor)/15=165)

 

Aw man, I want to go to Burning Man!

And what's the most dependable way to stir up schitt among people clamoring for numbers? Why, the posting of numbers, of course!

 

Where did the +6 to +12hp estimates for the M7 AGS come from?

 

 

I think the cost of the MTH was figured for the cost of a cable and the ecu tuning. Not the tuning alone.

 

Here's my flames!

ECUs. For the low-end gains, the number should be zero or close to it. We've seen both of those ECUs make zero power before.

The one-ball has made 5hp or so on the high-end.

Cat-back. 12 - even for a high number is crazy on the high side. I'd be shocked to see a repeatable dyno get over 10. As for the low side, how can 6 be the minimum or conservative? I'd say 3hp for the low.

Air-intakes are another one. Andy has shown great data with the HAI. It's high numbers should be higher. Other intakes have shown ZERO power so that should be the low (6 is outrageous!) and 12 for the high-end is just as crazy. I'd say 6 is a high number. If there's one thing I learned in modding these cars is that anything over $100 for an intake would probably be a waste of money next time around.

Intercooler. The conservative gain should be zero. There are many situations where a larger intercooler won't help. And even in the ones where it MIGHT help, there hasn't been conclusive data to show what type of gains (or loss prevention) is possible.

Just for kicks I'll post some prices of mods for the new 2005 Mustang GT. Everyone tells me this is the car I should be modding but I don't want to spend the dough modding TWO cars (although the MINI-modding is done - at least on this one ). But for cost and especially for power, I see what people are talking about.

Examples:

Magnaflow FULL exhaust
-True dual exhaust
- DUAL cats
- Header plus catback

Cost? $1600?
$1200?

Try $695!!!

ECU. Not JUST a flash. But a do-it-yourself pod or tool that plugs under your dash. You pick from half a dozen programs with the tool on its own LARGE SCREEN and download it - without addition power or batteries. Also comes complete with a diagnostic SCAN TOOL!

How much for multiple ECU programs, a do-it-yourself programmer (also keeps stock program so you can revert back) and electronic diagnostic tool?

$1500?
$1200?
$895???

Try $495!
How much power for an ECU and exhaust? Try 35hp/torque.

That said, the Mustang is plenty fast and the exhaust sounds absolutely amazing stock. I'll be doing a write-up in the off-topic/autos section very soon.

 

Keep the flames coming, I'm not even warm!

KevinR For the AGS, I just made the numbers up. Right now, I do Marketing, so I'm allowed

JLM, I know I left a bunch out, but after re-doing the tables about a dozen times, I just decided to stop....

MDSBrain, yep, cable and reg fees for MTH.

GreatGro, Thanks for the numbers. Sometime I may rev up the table. If I get more numbers to put in that are real, this may actually be usefull to people for planning the Mod strategy.

All, The real performance metric is power to weight ratio changes, and this table doesn't do that. It also doesn't capture benefits in efficiencey, athestics or most importantly, handling. Anyone know how one would rank handling adders? Weight reduction? How do you quantify handling improvement by mod?

Stuff for another day...

Matt

 

As long as you cite your source, I'm okay with it...

 

I saw 12 whp with my HAI. No ********. I can post graphs if anyone doesnt believe me.


12 hp on top of 177 from oneball\15% pulley.
So by my count, 45$\12 hp is 3.75$\hp.

Cool chart!


Will.

 

Let me know if you want help posting the graphs. I can walk you through it. There's a scacity of real data, so if you'll provide it, I'll help you get it on-line.

Matt

 

Hi all, I looked over ECs Mini build up.
First Exhaust...


Next Intake


Pully, different exhaust and intake (Mini Mania Stage II)


Chip Tuning.....

There's a claim of Denso Iridiums adding more at the top (9.4 hp and 7.1 ft-lbs, both at 7000 RPM) but there seems to be a problem with the web page, and the link shows the same link as above....

Matt