Drivetrain M7 Air Gain System... Sneak Peek
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Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 2
From: los angeles
Originally Posted by TonyB
sheild of sorts. Earlier, I think Peter gave us an idea as to what type of filter he had planned to use... Well, with the slight design change (further simplification), the shape and the SIZE of the filter should change much.
Let's see..Yes after a lot of testing on the flow bench and on the test mule
something was absolutly clear to me,Bigger is better when it comes to
the filter element.
HUGE is what we ended up with, it will outflow almost
anything you care to mention. Filter size 11"x5"x3.5" and it will stay incredibly
cool where it's placed.
I get chills when I think about it peter
Team M7
562-712-3270
www.m7tuning.com
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,580
Likes: 0
From: Santa Clara, CA
Originally Posted by El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini
Is that verified HP or butt dyno hp?
maybe we need to add another category for audio HP?
just curious?
maybe we need to add another category for audio HP?
just curious?
Dont get me started on you again.... do you ever have anything constructive to say or are you just here to bash everyone whos car isnt as quick as yours? I think Im gonna start a thread to see who wants you shut up or kicked off these forums.... Ill link it when I get it started.
Nah, you didnt say too much MSFITOY.... Tony on the other hand
I heard M7 is working on putting the engine from a 737 into a MINI
Banned
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
From: So Cal
Originally Posted by JCampos
Since I dont have a dyno in my apartment complex, its butt dyno... but It is very apparent, especially at freeway speeds. Id say more down low torque than HP really.
Dont get me started on you again.... do you ever have anything constructive to say or are you just here to bash everyone whos car isnt as quick as yours? I think Im gonna start a thread to see who wants you kicked off these forums.... Ill link it when I get it started.
Nah, you didnt say too much MSFITOY.... Tony on the other hand I heard M7 is working on putting the engine from a 737 into a MINI
Dont get me started on you again.... do you ever have anything constructive to say or are you just here to bash everyone whos car isnt as quick as yours? I think Im gonna start a thread to see who wants you kicked off these forums.... Ill link it when I get it started.
Nah, you didnt say too much MSFITOY.... Tony on the other hand
I heard M7 is working on putting the engine from a 737 into a MINI how childish can you be?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
[QUOTE=.Nah, you didnt say too much MSFITOY.... Tony on the other hand I heard M7 is working on putting the engine from a 737 into a MINI [/QUOTE]
Waitaminute....
I just got done talking to him and he told me he was working on a C-stock ME-162 fueled injection system for the Mini
I heard M7 is working on putting the engine from a 737 into a MINI [/QUOTE] Waitaminute....
I just got done talking to him and he told me he was working on a C-stock ME-162 fueled injection system for the Mini
pug poo picker-upper
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,803
Likes: 30
From: California
Originally Posted by JCampos
Dont get me started on you again.... do you ever have anything constructive to say or are you just here to bash everyone whos car isnt as quick as yours? I think Im gonna start a thread to see who wants you shut up or kicked off these forums.... Ill link it when I get it started.
If you have personal issues take them offline.
The appropriate channel for any problems with other members is to take them up *directly* with Mark and myself. Spewing crap of this nature on the forum will only serve to harm your own future on the site.
Keep the thread on track from this point out. I don't want to have to start removing posts for personal issues. As a reminder we're discussing the M7 Air Gain System.
pug poo picker-upper
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,803
Likes: 30
From: California
Originally Posted by El Diablito Rojo-N20Mini
You seem to have a problem with facts....
how childish can you be?
how childish can you be?
6th Gear
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 0
From: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by zinful
Will installing the M7 Air Gain System void the warranty???????????????
I might have to wait till my warranty run's it course.
I might have to wait till my warranty run's it course.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
So, back to facts, how exactly was this purported gain achieved? What is the pressure drop with the complete stock system, with an HAI, and with the AGS? You need to look at the complete system from the filter element to the supercharger inlet in order for there to be any meaningful data at all. I could manufacture a 1" long spacer that fit between the supercharger inlet and the stock inlet pipe. Compared to the stock inlet pipe, my spacer alone would undoubtedly flow much better on a flow bench than the stock inlet pipe alone. But that doesn't mean that the system would show any improvement at all (it should indeed flow worse).
From the looks of it, the AGS relocates the throttle body so that its butterfly is perpendicular to the flow going into the supercharger inlet. That's definitely a good thing. But, from the looks of the prototype, this causes a 90 degree bend upstream of the throttle, between the throttle and the air filter. Hence, my question as to the overall pressure drop for the intake system.
On the subject of heat shields, I'd love to see some data on that as well. What good is a "heat shield" if the vendor cannot demonstrate the resulting temperature change from adding that shield.
The moral of the story is this: Any intake that claims to offer an improvement in performance over stock, needs to show an increase in mass airflow. Since this isn't easily measured by the vehicle's own sensors (remember, no MAF here), it can be easily calculated by knowing the pressure and the temperature of the air under a repeatable set of circumstances.
From the looks of it, the AGS relocates the throttle body so that its butterfly is perpendicular to the flow going into the supercharger inlet. That's definitely a good thing. But, from the looks of the prototype, this causes a 90 degree bend upstream of the throttle, between the throttle and the air filter. Hence, my question as to the overall pressure drop for the intake system.
On the subject of heat shields, I'd love to see some data on that as well. What good is a "heat shield" if the vendor cannot demonstrate the resulting temperature change from adding that shield.
The moral of the story is this: Any intake that claims to offer an improvement in performance over stock, needs to show an increase in mass airflow. Since this isn't easily measured by the vehicle's own sensors (remember, no MAF here), it can be easily calculated by knowing the pressure and the temperature of the air under a repeatable set of circumstances.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by andy@ross-tech.com
So, back to facts, how exactly was this purported gain achieved? What is the pressure drop with the complete stock system, with an HAI, and with the AGS? You need to look at the complete system from the filter element to the supercharger inlet in order for there to be any meaningful data at all. I could manufacture a 1" long spacer that fit between the supercharger inlet and the stock inlet pipe. Compared to the stock inlet pipe, my spacer alone would undoubtedly flow much better on a flow bench than the stock inlet pipe alone. But that doesn't mean that the system would show any improvement at all (it should indeed flow worse).
From the looks of it, the AGS relocates the throttle body so that its butterfly is perpendicular to the flow going into the supercharger inlet. That's definitely a good thing. But, from the looks of the prototype, this causes a 90 degree bend upstream of the throttle, between the throttle and the air filter. Hence, my question as to the overall pressure drop for the intake system.
On the subject of heat shields, I'd love to see some data on that as well. What good is a "heat shield" if the vendor cannot demonstrate the resulting temperature change from adding that shield.
The moral of the story is this: Any intake that claims to offer an improvement in performance over stock, needs to show an increase in mass airflow. Since this isn't easily measured by the vehicle's own sensors (remember, no MAF here), it can be easily calculated by knowing the pressure and the temperature of the air under a repeatable set of circumstances.
From the looks of it, the AGS relocates the throttle body so that its butterfly is perpendicular to the flow going into the supercharger inlet. That's definitely a good thing. But, from the looks of the prototype, this causes a 90 degree bend upstream of the throttle, between the throttle and the air filter. Hence, my question as to the overall pressure drop for the intake system.
On the subject of heat shields, I'd love to see some data on that as well. What good is a "heat shield" if the vendor cannot demonstrate the resulting temperature change from adding that shield.
The moral of the story is this: Any intake that claims to offer an improvement in performance over stock, needs to show an increase in mass airflow. Since this isn't easily measured by the vehicle's own sensors (remember, no MAF here), it can be easily calculated by knowing the pressure and the temperature of the air under a repeatable set of circumstances.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,816
Likes: 2
From: New Jersey
Originally Posted by M7
Yes after a lot of testing on the flow bench and on the test mule something was absolutly clear to me,Bigger is better when it comes to the filter element.
The larger the filter volume, the less restriction it has? Brilliant!
Originally Posted by sfjames2
btw, you seem like a mean person. Do you have any means of measuring your meanness??
And don't give me that 'seat of the pants mean-ometer' stuff! 
As for the AGS - is the filter in a place other than the stock airbox? There just aren't a whole lotta places under the hood(?) you can fit an object that is 11"x5"x3.5"...
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: San Fran, Bay Area
Peter/M7
Just checking on the progress of the AGS, what if any HP/Torque numbers are you seeing? Any time frame as to when we'll be able to see your materpiece installed and running, dyno numbers and all?
Thanks in advance for the update :smile:
Just checking on the progress of the AGS, what if any HP/Torque numbers are you seeing? Any time frame as to when we'll be able to see your materpiece installed and running, dyno numbers and all?
Thanks in advance for the update :smile:
Thread Starter
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Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 2
From: los angeles
Just got back from the plastic company, and the mold is ready for a new testrun by early next week, if everything fits correctly with no issues
I should be able to start some testing/Dynoruns right away.
As for delivery of parts to the Mini community, I'm cautiously optimistic of deliveries in the end of the month....
Peter
Team M7
562-712-3270
I should be able to start some testing/Dynoruns right away.
As for delivery of parts to the Mini community, I'm cautiously optimistic of deliveries in the end of the month....
Peter
Team M7
562-712-3270
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
So if the piece is just being finished now, and it is possibly available at the end of the month, I'm guessing there won't be any extensive field testing to see if the AGS has adverse effects on the engine? I know that ultimately you are just bringing in more air (possibly cooler), which most intakes do safely already, but if the gains are as dramatic as you say, couldn't it potentially compromise things in ways other intakes don't? I'm all for new ideas, and applaud you guys for traveling the road less traveled. I just want to make sure the long-term effects of such a "new and radical" product have been thought out and tested thoroughly before I put it on my ride.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 10
From: L.A ca
One of the main reason the AGS will show much better flow numbers is the larger than normal surface area of the filter. The filter is able flow more air yet offer AT LEAST the same protection as any of the other paper elements out there and far more than a popular foam unit. These numbers can and will be shown at the proper time and will be provided by a ISO certified lab for all you number guys 
Randy
Team M7
www.M7tuning.com
Randy
Team M7
www.M7tuning.com
Last edited by maxmini; Jan 20, 2005 at 10:22 PM.
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by DiD
Same thing. Take this personal issue offline and don't add to the issue.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted by maxmini
One of the main reason the AGS will show much better flow numbers is the larger than normal surface area of the filter. The filter is able flow more air yet offer AT LEAST the same protection as any of the other paper elements out there and far more than a popular foam unit. These numbers can and will be shown at the proper time and will be provided by a ISO certified lab for all you number guys
Randy
Team M7
www.M7tuning.com
Randy
Team M7
www.M7tuning.com