where are the numbers we were promised?

 

I am astounded that anyone would want to buy a Mini performance part (system) without some performance data.

Great job with the smoke and mirrors Peter. It would appear that old BB was correct, "One is born every minute".

Come on guys lets see the performance data before we send M7 the $$$$ for what could be a pig in a poke.

After all this time I would be amazed if there is NO data to support the M7 production decision----SHARE!!!

 

You sit back, play it safe, and wait for numbers... meanwhile, Ill enjoy my AGS. Ill post numbers when I get them

 

Dido that Jay, We gotta dedicate a day to install james', yours and mine then take em for a run on Hwy 9 , 35 and 84

 

Can someone post the pictures during the installation? I want to see how you fit all those parts in the car. thank you in advance.

 

C'mon guys........


IT'S A GLORIFIED HAI ! ! !

M7 has some great products, but this is nothing more than an expensive piece of plastic and a bigger TB. Kudo's to the M7 crew for the idea, but lets see some definitive before and after numbers.

 

Not really scott... there are a few things different here than the K&N filter on the TB....

First off, the runner from the throttle body to the blower is replaced with a piece that does not taper down and restrict airflow. This actually ends up making the airflow from the throttle body to the supercharger almost a straight line. Second, this filter is much larger than the K&N filter used for the HAI and does not REST on the outlet side of the intake manifold from the intercooler. It will actually have a heat shield in place ones the M7 crew finishes those up.

Youll see, I just got dynoed with a HAI.... ill let you know how much different this is

 

Ill send you the instructions when im done with em

 

Let's say we have shady vendor trying to rob us blind. After getting a stock dyno done, he goes back to his shop to install his wonderful new mod. He also, unknowing to us, slips in another mod, what the heck. And while on the way back to the dyno the next day, he gasses-up with 100 octane. What the hell, other guys are most likely doing it... I better take steriods also . Gosh, and if after all of that, if the first pull doesn't go well, have the operator ratchet-down the wheels more, and get some ice going also (on the IC). And the very creative types can fudge things further with some key strokes and a mouse. I've heard my share of stories, and I'll just leave it at that...

Numbers?

I build relationships with those whom I give my money. In reality, the trust needs to begin there...

It's my understanding that performance numbers will come. M7 already has some with the AGS, but these figures also include other goodies that will comprise a package that he is currently refining. When that tuning is complete (I think it might be already), then I'm sure he'll get a delta just on the AGS alone...

As popular as the Alta intake has been for the past couple of years, and probably for good reason, a website visit there doesn't include any performance data. They have done just fine by sharing the beneficial attributes of their product. And this is so with many other intakes, as well as other products we have available to us.

To say that NO data has been provided is not exactly accurate though. The AGS replaces the SC runner, where all other intakes utilize this stock piece. As shared earlier, this AGS part, essentially the only plumbing of the System, flows 10% better than the stocker...

As we have seen, performance numbers vary from stock MINI to stock MINI, unique mod combinations, dynos, dyno operators, and also due to incompetence, simple errors in calculations, and even by intentional, mis-leading motives to pump-up performance data, or the opposite. Unless there is an un-interested third party doing professional, controlled testing, I have gone from being adamant on wanting numbers, to now wanting to understand the characteristics that make for gains; so I can decide for myself.

I have come to learn that less bends, and a shorter more direct path is a good thing. Likewise, a narrower pipe is more restrictive than a fatter one. Funneling-down the diameter however can aid in air velocity. Cooler air is better than warmer. A smooth interior surface is more conducive to improved flow than one that is more rough. These are tangible attributes that we can see.

The AGS Pro addresses all of these aspects better than anything I've seen yet. I think many of us feel that is the selling point. And considering that some TBs sell for 500 bucks, 599 for the package is a very fair price.

 

 

Peter don't make me call you man, just send it.

where's a Smiley with some huge NUTS to show off??

 

I second that

 

I hope you are right. It just looks like an expensive knock-off to me. I will wait to spend my money (if at all). I hate to be on the leading edge of consumerism.

 

Good evening Scott......

It bothers me that someone would come on the board saying something like

"It just looks like an expensive knock-off to me." How can you sit in the beautiful city of bend, and spout such ignorance???

Why don't you tell everyone here on ther board what I knocked-of......

Maybe it's the AGS tube or the custom made filter that you can't buy for
any money exept from us, or the custom made wiring harnes extension
with custom molded plugs. or the extremely expensive stainless steel
T-bolt clamp we are using, or is it possibly the...........

You see, I'm used to guys like you complaining that we are doing this or that
wrong, the design isn't good or what ever

Guess what, I'm not stopping designing cool stuff for the MINI, hell no
the next coupple of weeks will knock your socks of with more exceptional
MINI exclusive products....

The Dr.
Team M7

 

Kudos to M7 for keeping the price point where they promised early on in the sneak preview process. I think it speaks volumes to M7's professionalism that they did not increase the price despite the likely added development costs.

I'm now very glad I went with an inexpensive CAI as an interim measure and look forward to adding the AGS in the near future.

 

HAI:
4x6.25x7 = filter area of 119 in^2

AGS filter:
11x5x3.25 = filter area of 90 in^2

Since each filter has rounded edges, I calculated areas based on the width of the filter being the diameter of the rounded edge. Looks like filter area of the HAI filter is about 32% larger than that of the AGS filter. Both are pleated, oiled-cotton filters between wire mesh, right?

 

Why would a vendor lash out at people asking for proof of the supposed gains over everything else on the market? Why would a vendor publicly tell potential customers to not buy competitors' products (restraint of trade)? Really, I'm curious ... why?

Maybe I'm simplifying things too much, but wouldn't it be better for sales as well as public relations, to just show your real-world testing results, comparing the "AGS" to existing intakes on the market as opposed to endless missed self-imposed deadlines, unsupported performance claims, and antagonistic arguments with the people who could potentially be buying your products? I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'd be happy to provide you with all the information that you'd need to accurately measure the improvement of any any of your products and put to rest any of the questions from your skeptics. All you have to do is ask.

 

Ya, sorry... I guess I mis-read earlier... Tony sent me a PM telling me a made a mistake.

 

So, I just read the whole 21 page thread, after seeing an announcement on the front page.


And I get to the end, and there are no performance numbers for this product? No flow numbers, no dyno runs, not even a weight savings!

M7, you seem to indicate that you spend considerable time and effort developing your products. I believe that, as it took quite some time to get this to market. What I can't understand, however, is how you could, with all of that design and development time, release a product without having test numbers, performance improvement data, to back it up.

Honestly, as an impartial observer here, it leads me to believe one of two things:

A.) You don't have data.

or, most likely,

B.) The improvement that you have measured falls short of the cost.

I understand you have some devoted fans here, but for us casual observers, who have to pick and choose our mods carefully, please, give me some reason to buy your product that isn't just promises and hyperbole.

 

It sounds like M7 has 3-4 rabid buyers for anything he might put out there, regardless of whether it actually does anything or not, good or bad. Now, what about the hundreds of other potential buyers that actually want to see some reason to buy this AGS product. So far, in this entire thread, I've seen no reason anyone would buy this thing. In fact, based on Andy's calculations on the filters, there seems to be a very good reason NOT to buy this AGS contraption. Unless you like to reduce airflow to your engine, of course. Am I missing something here?

 

please keep designing.... but show the numbers

 

What am I missing here? While browsing through nearly every vendor site, including BMP, K&N, MiniMania, Alta, Mini Madness, Cobalt, and Pilo, I found several boasts but no independent dyno results to back any claims. Dinan was the only company that actually had dyno results posted but for the entire package, not just the CAI. This is a relatively small ticket item in which most people take the vendor's reputation along with consumer feedback (preferably people who actually own the item) when making the decision. If is nothing more than a hot-air-intake, as claimed by some, why has it taken so long in the R&D department? I'm not being a Kool-Aid drinker here but why is M7 being treated differently than anybody else?

 

I beg to differ. If anything, M7 is being treated pretty much as any other vendor that boasts about a product. I've bought from M7, and spoken several times to Peter, but dropping $600 on faith and some conversations is not my idea of a good purchase.
There's got to be some performance data that can be shared after all this time.

That being said, this looks like a great product and I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it meets to expectations. But the proof is in the pudding (numbers).

 

The "knock-off" I was referring to is the HAI. You took an idea from someone else and developed it for yourself. I have seen nothing that would validate paying 5 times as much for your product over the HAI discussed in these forums. Until you and the other M7 team members have done that, I will hold off on accepting any claims of yours on the performance value of the AGS. I am by no means belittling what you have done, I just won't accept your claims of increased performance (w/o the TB) over the HAI.

You have developed a lot of very worthy parts for the MINI, and I am glad that you have stepped up the challenges of offering quality parts. Just don't expect me, and apparently some others, to just blindly accept all of your claims.

Regards,

 

Man, people really treat the vendors like sheeet around here. .