Can we take a break from attacking eachother? I mean, dang, yes there are production complications and I don't see anyone else taking the job of making the AGS besides M7 themselves. More props to them. So focus on your own project/product and lets see what you can do. (No offense)

 

Tony,
Suit yourself! BTW, did you ever notice the resonator in the stock induction system? Its in tube that goes from the grille to the filter.

--
Cheese

 

The stock one may be a quarter-wavelength resonator (yellow):



http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1969/article.html

 

Mac, I'm not trying to suit myself per se, as I'm trying to find more information about what someone else mentioned here. Yes, I've seen it (stock induction system) before alright. And if I can get gains by ditching it, and if it passes a cost/benefit analysis (as with any other mod), I will discard yet another stock item...

 

much of the stuff in the mini ain't for the power enthusiast. If trading off performance for driver comfort, low sound levels, less rattles, more cushion, etc is your bag, get out of this forum before you get contaminated!

 

sorry, I've been contaminated thats why I bought my second MINI. just for pure modding obsession.

 

The resonator in the stock system is definately for sound and not for performance but if it works one way....


--
Cheese

 

Why does it look like the filter used is MUCH smaller than any of the other aftermarket filters? How does it compare in size?

 

It's an optical illusion...

Filter size: 11x5x3.25 inches

It's Huge and if you would see the space it has to occupy, then you would really appreciate the amount of R&D time that went in to this project.


peter
Team M7

562-712-3270

 

Here's alink I found to engine modeling software. It discussed the pulsed nature of the airflow in a motor, and a bunch of other stuff! I hope someone models the Mini motor....

http://www.proracingsim.com/

Have fun! And it will let you know about dimensional tuning in motors. for those that doubt tuned intakes etc, every ask why the new M5 has variable length runners? So it can use ressonant effect to stuff more charge into the cylinders. And it works to the effect that the whole computer controlled pile of stuff that makes it all work is worth the hassle. And costs.....

Anyone know of a good engine theory book?

Matt

 

That was my reaction when I saw it in person.

 

Hi Tony,
most don't tune for SCs because there's already more power than the NA motor. Also, it gets tight under the hood (just look at the funky air path in the stock S). But the math is the math. If you use a ressonant effect to maximize the pressure at the SC intake when it's "inhaling", you'll get benefit. I don't know how much the pressure can be modulated at the SC intake port, but I'd guess 10% would be very doable. And that would add some real power!

It's jsut easier to get as much air in frot of the SC by opening everyuthing up, but it may not be best for all RPM ranges. You can also read the never ending debate on exhaust header design. Many think big tubes are best, and they will flow more if you can rev enough (maybe to push a connecting rod throug the block wall ), but for lower RPMs, the gas charge is moving slower, so it can't suck as much air out of the chamber when the exhaust valve is open.

Sometimes these trade offs result in some very interesting technology. Remember the Torus SHO? It had a dual intake runner set up, a short and a long. I think the new Corvettes do something similar.....

These performance adders are like wine, the cost increases exponetially (with a large, posative exponant) as you get the last ounce of power out of the mod (which has to be designed with all the other mods in mind).....

Matt

 

So it's has slighty less surface area than the Alta filter. (approx 115 sq in for yours and 135 for the Alta)

 

Some back of the envelope calculations....

AGS air filter ~97 square inches of area (not counting filter crinkles).

K&N 1542 or whatever ~ 104 sq in

So HAI is about 7% larger in serface area, or considering the accuracy of the numbers I used, about the same

Just waiting for numbers.......

Matt

 

HAI:
4x6.25x7 = filter area of 119 in^2

AGS filter:
11x5x3.25 = filter area of 90 in^2

Since each filter has rounded edges, I calculated areas based on the width of the filter being the diameter of the rounded edge. Looks like filter area of the HAI filter is about 32% larger than that of the AGS filter. Both are pleated, oiled-cotton filters between wire mesh, right?

 

 

LOL, Andy I think we've already determined that IAT isn't the whole story with the MCS intake systems, with the HAI charade (since I'm the only person that's actually posted anything resembling a dyno run comparison). Keep your pants on until some dyno runs with the M7 AGS get hammered out.

In the end, whether the product is a performance success will be determined by its A) drivability smoothness, and B) power curves, not something as narrow as solely IAT.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

I agree completely when comparing system to sytem, but this is about a HEAT SHIELD. It's only effect should be shielding heat. How would you measure that? through AIT. Unless I'm missing something completely....

Matt

 

Matt - your point regarding the heat shield is spot on! I'm just keeping Andy on his toes

According to M7, the Heat Shield will be an optional piece. My testing demonstrates that the "HAI" actually isn't a hot-air intake per se, just that it doesn't have a heat shield. I can speculate what the heat shield may assist with on the AGS design (could help "scoop" air from the front panel, could actually help with keeping heat away from the filter element, but it definitely helps make the AGS professional looking)

I wouldn't pin it on M7 to disclose their R&D; it's not their obligation. However, when I get the AGS, you can be sure I'll be doing a full-testing regime

Cheers,
Ryan

 

The heatshield is part of the system, not an option.

It works exactly as you guessed Ryan, to scoop up cool dense air,
and in the same time shield the filter from radiating heat.... :smile:

peter
Team M7

562-712-3270

 

So andy I am curious. That hose going into the top of your air filter , did you just chew that to length or rip it apart with your bare hands? They have tools for that sort of thing now

 

I have an army of trained gophers who gnawed it to length.

 

hahahahahaha

 

FINALLY! Some humor in this thread

 

there once was a man from Nantucket.....

You know the rest....

Matt