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What two units are you talking about? Mechanical vs the electronic that replaced it? The BMW/MINI electronic LSD is essentially a standard open diff that applies the brake to the spinning side, causing more rotation on the other side. For track and spirited driving, you wouldn't want to produce additional heat in the brakes.
rkw -
Incorrect answer. The "electronic" method you speak of is traction control, not any type of positraction unit. As I am learning, there seems to be actually two different units, that you can actually hold in your hand.
And yes, I fully understand that there are many types of posi units. But NOT in Mini Coopers..!
You need to do some more learning, just like me..!
downshift -
A bit better. BUT, both are torque biasing devices. They just do the work by different methods.
As I've been reading, there seems to be an "old" fashioned clutch type unit (that folks seem to like), and a newer gear driven unit (that for some reason folks don't seem to like). If this is the case, both are just fine. One wears out, one doesn't, both transfer rotating torque effectively.
I have a gear driven style in one of my American cars...it works just fine to spin both tires.
I had a plate style in another American car I just sold, that was worn out and not working as a positraction device, just a differential..!
Still in need if accurate information, and or verify "downshifts" info about the gear driven vs. the plate design.
Inquiring minds want to know.
I think the problem is the quaife, which is an old and well respected brand, is a clutch plate model. And the OS Gicken is a plate as well iirc.
The worm or gear drive units are made by newer, less well known companies who aren't based in the USA, and so are obviously inferior.
As to which is better, you can tune the plates and springs easier than cutting new worm gears, but either is fine for just laying 11's down the street or strip. As to on off throttle behaviour at the limit of traction on a track I can't say. You probably just drive the one your sponsors provide and get it tuned to your driving style if you are good enough, or adapt to how it drives if you can't afford to drive at that level.
Anakist wrote - The worm or gear drive units are made by newer, less well known companies who aren't based in the USA, and so are obviously inferior.
And exactly WHY are the gear assemblies inferior to the clutch types ? Please explain.
Yea, I'll just bet...people take their differential apart weekly to "tune" their plate unit... Really, who are you trying to kid..?
There is VERY little "tuning" one can do to a plate type posi. unit. Stronger springs or restacking the plates, which normally results in "locking" the unit and effectively making it into a spool. Been there don't that. Stronger springs go away shortly because of the heat. Restacking the plates (removing the cone plate and adding another thicker flat plate), makes a plate style posi. unto a spool. As I said, been there done that.
Still wanting to understand this.
Just looking for real time, Mini Cooper Limited Slip Differential information. (Not interested ripping my new (05) car apart to find out what I have..!).
I think the problem is the quaife, which is an old and well respected brand, is a clutch plate model. And the OS Gicken is a plate as well iirc.
The worm or gear drive units are made by newer, less well known companies who aren't based in the USA, and so are obviously inferior.
As to which is better, you can tune the plates and springs easier than cutting new worm gears, but either is fine for just laying 11's down the street or strip. As to on off throttle behaviour at the limit of traction on a track I can't say. You probably just drive the one your sponsors provide and get it tuned to your driving style if you are good enough, or adapt to how it drives if you can't afford to drive at that level.
James
Quaife is a torsen type with helical gears, not plate/clutch.
I had one on my old R50 with 6 speed conversion.
It's a high quality, durable street friendly LSD and has been around for a long time with applications for many vehicles.
It does revert to same as open differential when there is ZERO traction on one wheel, which is different than a clutch/plate design.
Wavetrac is similar, but newer and less sure about the quality.
OS Giken seems to be the gold standard (gold = $$$ as well as quality) for clutch/plate type.
[QUOTE=OCR;4413128]And exactly WHY are the gear assemblies inferior to the clutch types ?/QUOTE]
They aren't. That is the joke.
You have had both units so you know how they both behave. You make facetious comments that no one will tune a diff, then say you have done it. What exactly are you asking? And why are you being a **** about it? You have asked a question, and then told people who have provided an answer they are wrong. One is better than the other for your specific situation, but you need to translate the marketeering **** into something that is useful to you yourself.
Edit: Thanks for letting me know about Quaife. I can never remember which is which.
Mini only offered one type of mechanical LSD, the superdiff also installed in some mazda miata for a couple years. It has beveled gears on the outsides of the housing, torque presses against them to send power to the other side. Mazda world calls it a TOCHIGI FUJI SUPER LSD it is the same design mini used in late r53 and early R56, I have 2 r53's with them and I had an r56 with one.
Mini now has e-lsd like bmw, it uses the brakes to simulate a LSD by braking the spinning wheel. Terrible idea, overheats and destroys pads at the track, they code in boost limits on the bmw because they know the brakes overheat, not sure if mini has this too but most likely does. Mini started using this in the R56 and discontinued the real mechanical LSD option
There are multiple clutch types like os giken or 3J driveline, in 1 way or 1.5 or 2 way, and even more options for geared diffs like quaife or wavetrac.
I would personally only ever own a 1 way in a FWD car, we have to get it done on the turns, and turn in is VERY important..
This site details all the crap you have to code off on BMW if you install a real LSD, I have not looked in modern mini modules to see if they named everything the same, but bmw does like to keep it the same, even our R53 MK2 ABS modules use the same code as BMW MK2 modules
Anakist wrote - The worm or gear drive units are made by newer, less well known companies who aren't based in the USA, and so are obviously inferior.
And exactly WHY are the gear assemblies inferior to the clutch types ? Please explain.
Yea, I'll just bet...people take their differential apart weekly to "tune" their plate unit... Really, who are you trying to kid..?
There is VERY little "tuning" one can do to a plate type posi. unit. Stronger springs or restacking the plates, which normally results in "locking" the unit and effectively making it into a spool. Been there don't that. Stronger springs go away shortly because of the heat. Restacking the plates (removing the cone plate and adding another thicker flat plate), makes a plate style posi. unto a spool. As I said, been there done that.
Still wanting to understand this.
Just looking for real time, Mini Cooper Limited Slip Differential information. (Not interested ripping my new (05) car apart to find out what I have..!).
Mike
Actually there is a lot of tuning available on an OS unit. You have ramp angles, spring pressures, block angles, different friction plate material. You can tune it to your driving style.
looking for real time, Mini Cooper Limited Slip Differential information. (Not interested ripping my new (05) car apart to find out what I have..!).
Enter your VIN here to see if your car was built with the factory LSD option: http://bimmer.work/ (chances are not — LSD wasn't a popular option and that's why MINI discontinued it). Even if it does have it, it's probably worn out by now and working like an open diff. Read this thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...e-are-you.html
Seems like OCS already has the answers he was looking for and just wanted peoples opinions on the different LSD options... which seems to have been given... and retorted.
So many different "opinions". I was hoping for some more fact.
I'd still like to understand why "some think" the Quaife unit is so inferior to the clutch style..!
Found - Found the original window sticker buried in the paperwork stack I got with the car. So...YES, is does have the $500 option, LSD.
But it has no part number or service order number as with the American car lists to tell me exactly what I have.
Not positive but - I'm guessing that it has the Quaife unit, as the clutch style is much more expensive.
As I noted above, the gear style units work just fine for anything under about 450 h.p., from my American car experience in drag racing. I have one in one of my other cars and it works just fine to spin both rear tires when asked/required.
The Quaife unit will require a LOT...of miles to wear out, unlike the clutch unit that WILL wear out. Also as noted above, I just sold a car with a clutch style unit in it that is, worn out.
Seems people named other brands that aren't even used in the Mini...so why bring them up ? Yes, there are different brands of both clutch and gear style units, but again, it seems only two are/were used in the Gen 1 Mini (this is posted in the generation 1 section.
Thanks to those that answered with reasonable information.
Still have that one nagging question though..!
you should stop guessing, someone may read this and think what you posted is true, it's not. mini has NEVER used more than one LSD and has never used quaife
also with the last 6 of the vin you can see exactly what the factory put in the car, with the bimmer.work link posted above
I posted a link to the LSD mini used, that is what your car has if it has a factory LSD
Ha, some tangible information/proof of what I've been asking for since the original post and previous reading/searching before posting the question.
you should stop guessing, someone may read this and think what you posted is true, it's not. mini has NEVER used more than one LSD and has never used quaife No guessing here. Just going on what I've seen and what's been posted as answers to my original question..! AND, other posts I've read on this web site. Also, the Quaife web site mentions that their units "were" used in R53's and R56's...so, there IS that... A fair amount's been posted through out this site with zero real information, LOT's-a hearsay, so I really have had nothing actual to go by.!
also with the last 6 of the vin you can see exactly what the factory put in the car, with the bimmer.work link posted above Yea, that may give me what I want. But I did this shortly after I bought the car and didn't find the numerical info I wanted then, so I wasn't that eager to get more, lack of info. Will give it a try.
I posted a link to the LSD mini used, that is what your car has if it has a factory LSD As I noted and you MAY have read, yes...there IS that info on the window sticker...as previously mentioned.
Thanks for the links. Interesting info. I looked for something like that, obviously in the wrong locations.
I've never seen pictures of one worn out, but I have seen pictures of the tabs breaking off Hmm, as an Aerospace Engineer, what I can see in the pictures (thanks for that), that's a pretty odd looking contraption. I've done a LOT of proof of concept testing at work over the last 30+ years, I'd bet that, that assembly wouldn't wouldn't fly without some serious redesign.
No factory installed Quaifes in MINIS afaik.
They were used in R53 and r56 models in that
Quaife makes and sells LSDs for them and people
do buy them and put them in (I did for one).
Hmm, as an Aerospace Engineer, what I can see in the pictures (thanks for that), that's a pretty odd looking contraption. I've done a LOT of proof of concept testing at work over the last 30+ years, I'd bet that, that assembly wouldn't wouldn't fly without some serious redesign.
Maybe those images are incomplete but obviously it did fly because it was shipped in factory cars.
If the options for your car lists LSD, then you have the GKN that was posted. There is no ambiguity about what you have.
Boy! Am I glad I refrained from chiming in on this thread. Enough of having my foot in the mouth already. Back to doing stupid things with my Mini. Oh, I happened to decide on a Quaife for my needs and budget. When mail-ordering my R53.2 in 2004, the LSD was not an option.
08-10-2018, 11:19 PM
Back to doing stupid things with my Mini. Oh, I happened to decide on a Quaife for my needs and budget. When mail-ordering my R53.2 in 2004, the LSD was not an option.
