Me and my buddy are having a discussion about how to run the nitrous on my 05 R53. Any advice or stories would be helpful.

The plan so far...

We are planning on doing a dry 50hp shot into the top of the zex air filter. The idea being to cool everything down as it goes in. Is this a good way to go about it? Anyone suggest injecting it differently be it wet or dry? How is the s/c going to cope with this? What are some good ideas for having it juice at the rpm or gear we want? We want it to go in 2nd gear at WOT.

Note: We already have an AEM water/methanol setup injecting into the driverside curved "horn" coming from the intercooler. We also have tuning software, and AFR gauge, gutted cat and straight through exhaust, jcw injectors, and a 15% pulley. On standby is the 10lb bottle and solenoids, brackets, gauge, lines, etc.

 

PM'd

 

I'm about 1/3 of the way through my install, keep us posted on what you end up with & how it goes, there's just not many nitrous threads and some people are intetested.

Plus, don't forget, Zex offers an individual WOT control unit for use with selenoids, and an RPM window switch, my WOT switch is built in, but I'm using the RPM Window switch for my second stage, IMO, as long as you use a pushbutton with or without a WOT switch, you probably don't really need the RPM Window switch.

Their RPM Window switch also can be set to work in specific gears, only problem is, it's very rudimentry and only counts "gear changes" through RPM, so in order for it to activate in the proper gear you would have to start from the same gear "every time", not to practical for the street. But again, on a basic system all you should need is the push button, just to keep the control in your hands.

Good Luck

 

Thanks for the advice! I have been looking at window switches so thats good to know!

Unfortunatly he build is temporarily halted. I just busted the driverside axle 2 days ago. So until its road worthy again I have to hold off.

 

The dry kits are a problem waiting to happen. Since they up fuel pressure to add fuel. The AFR does not stay the same across the RPM band. Since you're adding a percentage of fuel to what is all ready going in it isn't ever a proper match to the amount of nitrous you inject.

I installed a ZEX kit years ago when they first came out and the control unit failed on me and blew the motor. The pressure bypass that ups the fuel pressure leaked making my fuel pressure peg to over a 100psi. The injectors couldn't open against the pressure and I went super lean then boom. Literally blew the intake off the throttle body.

If you have to use nitrous use a wet system to get the proper air fuel mix.

Now on to where to inject- You need to inject post intercooler. If you inject before when the now super cooled air goes through the intercooler it will actually be heated by the ambient engine heat. An intercooler works by temperature differential. Usually the air inside of it is hotter so heat is transferred to the outside air. If the air inside is colder it will transfer heat the other way. You just turn it into an interheater.

 

many engine rebuild stories start with "the engine was running fine until i installed the NOS system ...."

to successfully use NOS long term, you need an engine built for NOS, new rods and pistons at a minimum and an ECU set up to adjust spark advance to match the NOS injection rate

add-on kits are going to line the engine overhaulers pocket

scott

ex-manager of a 2 motorcycle landspeed record team, 1000cc and 1200cc running in turbo/nos class, holder of 2 world records at el mirage dry lake, 218 in 1000cc and 223 in 1200cc

while we learned about NOS, we destroyed so many rods and pistons that we ordered them by the dozen

once we got everything sorted, we were getting 525 WHP out of the 1200cc engine, engine life was about 10 runs, each run was less than 2 miles

 

Hmm, food for thought, I was going to run pre-I/C thinking that since with our cars there is so little distance traveled in general (not like we're running FMICs with tons of piping) that it wouldn't really matter much, esp. with my setup, running over 19psi of boost at WOT, this is also why I wasn't worried about fuel puddling, plus being used on the street, there's continued driving, unlike a drag track situation, where cars are quickly shut down after use. Alsi I don't think there's enough room to run the nozzle on the inside of the post I/C horn, so I wondered about spraying wet so close or even directly on, to the MAP sensor and what effect that may have on the info given to the ECU. Oh, also I'm going to be adding W/M to the mix, qnd it will be post-I/C, with such a limited area on the horn, didn't know how all those nozzles would react to each other?

Hmm, guess a little more "specific" research is in order, I do know Thmpr runs his pre, with no issues, guess a call may be in order, thanks for the info.

 

Here's a copy of my system setup so far, that I posted in my build thread, elsewhere on the intrewebz.

Ok, there were 2 other major items I had on my list of things to do before the rebuild, W/M & Nitrous, and with the change in seasons I decided to do the Nitrous first, I'll do the W/M early in the spring.

I want to start by saying, this system is Complete Overkill and will never be used to it's full potential on the Mini, but there is actually a method to my madness. One of the reasons for all the extra stuff is, I just decided to do it all now & never have to add later, no matter what vehicle I use it on. (not to mention, just a couple of things & this 1 system becomes 2) The main reason though, is control, I wanted maximum control over when & how much.

So, I started with this; the Zex Universal 4-6 cyl. Wet kit, Black Out edition. http://www.zex.com/zx/nitrous-system...wet-black.html



Sorry, I didn't do the obligatory "spread out everything on the floor" picture. :D

I choose "Wet" for the safety & ease of tuning, I'll be running a small enough "shot" that I won't need much timing adjustment and with "Wet" the AFR can simply be tuned with the fuel jet.

As I said, I started with that system, off of it I've built a One Off, Custom, 2 Stage system, including a 2nd "Wet Management" unit & RPM controller, I've also added a Purge kit & Bottle Heater.

Here's the intent behind all the "extra's" :
2 stages, mainly for traction & delivery control, each stage acts on both a WOT throttle position sensor & a push button. (2 seperate push buttons, one for Stage 1 only, one for both Stages combined)

Stage 1 will be stricktly determined by traction, what ever level I can use, up to approx. a 65 "shot" that the car will hold traction @ 3500 RPM in 2nd gear, is where it will be set at.

Stage 2 will give me an additional "shot" to give me a combined total of about 100, (for this incarnation of my motor) it will also be controlled by an RPM "window" switch and will only activate from the bottom of my next gear RPM point up to 7000. (in other words, if I run out the gear to "shift point" the RPM that I am then at, after my gear change, is where I'll set the bottom of the RPM controller, approx 5400 or so)

Here's a few pic's of the install so far, I'm 1/2 finished with all of the engine compartment install & have some of the wiring started:

Cut out for mounting panel:



Fabbed new panel:







Mocked up:



Installed:





I still have to install my Nozzles into my S/C horn & run my Fuel line from the Fuel Rail to my Gauge Sensor, then connect it to the system, I'm also adding a NOS pressure sensor for a gauge into the car. I'm finishing up making the bracket for those sensors now, and making custom push button & indicator panels for inside the car as well.

I'll get more pic's as everything happens.

 

Maybe their systems have changed over the years, in either wet or dry they are saying that additional fuel pressure (above 45psi, my stock fuel pump makes 63-65 @ WOT) is only needed if your planning on using a 125-150 shot & up, and even then, none of their controllers have a built in booster pump, they supply that seperately, and it clearly states that it is only to be used with a return style fuel system.

I know I prob. won't ever go all out, since for me it's not for a "race" car, besides at my mod level, besides the extra I would get from W/M, the only real increases I could make would be to go T/C or Turbo only, wich would involve far more work & 3-4x the cost, so even with all the "overboard extra's" it's worth a try. Ever since the BVH, I've always figured my $:hp ratio to be $90.00-$100.00 per hp, so anything more than a 15-20hp gain put's me ahead of the curve, I'm also being conservative with it, I'm not trying to make "monster" hp, just looking for an extr 50 or so, plus I'm in the unique situation of knowing & being prepared for a rebuild anyway, thats why I'm experimenting with this now, instead of after.

I'll just have to see how it goes, hope to have the time to finish up everything this w/e, but I'm doing lots of extra custom stuff with the install & you never can tell how long some of this stuff will take.

 

[QUOTE=banzairx7;3610552]

If you have to use nitrous use a wet system to get the proper air fuel mix.

QUOTE]

But since i am using a 50/50 mix of water/methanol as a secondary fuel source that is injecting only when i create 10lbs of boost and exponentially increases the injection flow as boost goes up, basically WOT, isnt it technically acting as a wet system? It enriches the AFR A LOT!

I do have the tuning software to advance my ignition timing and so much more.

 

When you say you are using a dry system are you saying your just going to spray nitrous with no fuel enrichment? That is a guaranteed blown motor regardless of methanol or not. I was thinking you meant a dry system where the base fuel pressure is increased to add the needed fuel.

You need to add fuel either by mixing with a wet injection nozzle or through the fuel injectors. If using the fuel injectors you can either increase the fuel pressure(bad idea) or add pulse width to the base injection time during nitrous injection.

Nitrous is an evil mistress. It is the hands down easiest way to blow an engine. Be VERY careful, cut no corners. I've installed three systems over the years and only one has not had a failure. I had the zex with the bad fuel pressure and a nitrous express wet kit where the fuel solenoid stuck closed and melted a spark plug. I'm sworn off it now.

 

I installed mine next to the meth intake on the exit horn from the IC

Randy

 

Its the same theory isnt it? A wet system injects nirtous and fuel. My idea is injecting the nitrous while at the same time injecting the higher octane methanol. Only difference is we are injecting the nitrous through there air filter so it has a bit of a path to follow before it mingles with the methanol being injected on the exit side of the intercooler. Almost the same location as how maxmini did it looks like.

 

Just use a mixing nozzle then, don't have separate inlets for the meth and nitrous. You'll get better atomization of the meth. Example:



That is a right angle spray unit but they make inline versions.

The other advantage is you can now use the nitrous kit makers fuel jets to get a proper A/F mixture. You can also just spray the methanol through this one nozzle sans nitrous.

One problem I see though is the standard methanol pump. It only gets clicked on when there is a call for methanol. It takes a bit to build pressure where the nitrous will come on full bore instantly. That will make you go lean when you start spraying. You can add an accumulator and pressure switch. The pump would maintain full system pressure regardless of whether it's on or not and will be ready to go with no drop in pressure. Another option maybe when the nitrous is armed it runs all the time. Then option three would be having a pressure switch on the pump outlet that triggers the nitrous solenoid. The WOT switch would call for nitrous- methanol pump turns on - power is trying to go the nitrous solenoid but is switched by the pump outlet pressure switch - pump gets to full pressure nitrous solenoid opens.

 

i like option 3. i never considered doing all of that. i thought of a 4th option as well though. i can tune my w/m pump to engage at any boost level. i could have it set at full at 1lb of boost, and it spools up rather quick. as long as i dont go wot right of the bat that might work. or even better, i could set it to go at no boost as well. it takes about 2 seconds to adjust. so if i am racing, i turn it and go. itll bog at idle a little unless i give it a bit of throttle. then i have the window switch to inject nitrous say in second gear at a mid-rpm range.

 

N2O is not a fuel it is an extreme oxygenator. What happens is the N2O (nitrous) goes into the engine and under heat and pressure breaks into N2 and O. Now everyone knows you need Oxygen (O) to burn anything. So when the O enters the engine you need more fuel for it to burn right then otherwise it will burn whatever is available in the combustion camber will oil and extra fuel. This will spike the internal temps and melt the pistons. If you have the additional fuel there for the N2O then everything works and the extra O only burns the extra fuel you put in and you get more power.
Somethings to know about N2O - it can only be use at WOT, N2O bottle pressure changes N2O delivered and can cause rich or lean conditions, If you close the throttle with the N2O on the intake manifold will blow off, if you hit the rev limiter on N2O your engine will blow up.
The best N2O system is a direct port wet system with bottle heater sprayed straight on to the intake valves. If your going to use a fogger setup then it must be a wet type. Dry systems will kill the engine. You can safely get away with about a 50 shot before things start dieing. If you try to do more than a 50 shot on a dry intake manifold (EFI car) then the fuel will drop out in the intake before it gets to the combustion camber and then the N2O will lean back fire light the fuel sitting in the intake and blow your manifold to pieces with your engine.

 

Thought I'd bump this old thread for anyone interested in Nitrous and not following my build thread on any of the other forums.

First, all the above is a good read for anyone interested in learning about Nitrous, I've been getting some GREAT guidence & info from Thmpr, and even though there were many setbacks with the holidays & the weather (no garage) everything slowly moved along & the systems final piece gets to me this week to start my testing.
Charged the system for the first time over the w/e and only saw 750psi, and since optimum psi is 900-1050 and Temp=Pressure=Consistant Power, the bottle heater coming in thurs is for me, a must for the tuning & operation of the safest system possible. Everything else is done & working as it should, I'm going to start with 2 stages, a 35 shot & a 65 shot, no more than that Pre-MOTD, after the event, I may decide to combine the two for a 100 shot, but it will all depend on how things work out.

 

Hey everyone, I want to install a small shot system on a 2012 "s" but it doesn't have a shrader valve on the fuel rail. Where can I tap into for extra fuel supply? Being direct injection, fuel pressure is pretty high. Thanks very much!