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R50/53 - R50/53 Anyone run nitrous on their R53?

R50/R53 :: Hatch Talk (2002-2006) Cooper (R50) and Cooper S (R53) hatchback discussion.

R50/53 - R50/53 Anyone run nitrous on their R53?

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Old 09-25-2015, 10:01 AM
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Anyone run nitrous on their R53?

Another thread on here on adding power to the R53 motors got me thinking. Adding a small nitrous setup like the NOS Sniper Universal Wet EFI kit to a mini sounds like a pretty cheap ($425) way to get a big power gain (30+hp). Not only do you get the power from the nitrous, the R53 would see another benefit from super cooling the intercooler (as long as you inject the nitrous/fuel mix before the IC). Has anyone tried this before? A few things concern me…..



Does the OEM MINI fuel pump have enough flow to supply the nitrous system and the fuel injectors? How much spray can you put to a stock R3 motor without having reliability issues? Are the R53 pistons cast or forged? Will the DME do anything weird with the timing or fuel maps when you introduce the spray to the motor? How long would the bottle last?

I’ve been around nitrous systems a bunch, but only on carbureted small block V8’s…..never any EFI stuff. I had a 175hp setup on my old Camaro street/strip car….and it was pretty fun to play around with to say the least. No real easing in to it though, it’s all or nothing. So on a mini, I’m guessing that all it would really be good for would be playing around and spinning the front times.

Anyone have any experience with nitrous setups on R53’s?

Thanks!
 
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Old 09-26-2015, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by IQRaceworks View Post
Another thread on here on adding power to the R53 motors got me thinking. Adding a small nitrous setup like the NOS Sniper Universal Wet EFI kit to a mini sounds like a pretty cheap ($425) way to get a big power gain (30+hp). Not only do you get the power from the nitrous, the R53 would see another benefit from super cooling the intercooler (as long as you inject the nitrous/fuel mix before the IC). Has anyone tried this before? A few things concern me…..



Does the OEM MINI fuel pump have enough flow to supply the nitrous system and the fuel injectors? How much spray can you put to a stock R3 motor without having reliability issues? Are the R53 pistons cast or forged? Will the DME do anything weird with the timing or fuel maps when you introduce the spray to the motor? How long would the bottle last?

I’ve been around nitrous systems a bunch, but only on carbureted small block V8’s…..never any EFI stuff. I had a 175hp setup on my old Camaro street/strip car….and it was pretty fun to play around with to say the least. No real easing in to it though, it’s all or nothing. So on a mini, I’m guessing that all it would really be good for would be playing around and spinning the front times.

Anyone have any experience with nitrous setups on R53’s?

Thanks!
 

Last edited by ottawa; 09-28-2015 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I thought you were against adding horse power to the MINI because it was useless for street applications... As for spinning, I doubt it. I ran 254whp for 2 years with an open diff. Yes, I'm sure I could've made it spin if I drove it like a d*ck but it was manageable for street.

I've since opted for an Os Giken diff. I have no issue putting down all of that power in any situation. Ever.

Fuel pump won't be an issue, but like anything else, so long as you have the proper supporting mods: injectors, tune

You also probably don't want to go directly into the IC. When spraying 100% meth this is ill advised because it'll collect as it's condensing and literally drip down the ic horn.

I'm not exactly sure if the same can be same for n02, but I'd assume that any combustible ported into the drive line should have a proper chance or utilizing it's spray pattern.
I think it's foolish to spend thousands on engine mods in order for someone to attempt to get 230+hp out of a mini motor....it's still really not enough power to do anything with on the street if you want to win drag races.

But $425 for a nitrous kit to play around with that will add the same amount of power, but for pretty cheap...well, that's worth it if you are just playing around. If you are trying to add power because you want to outrun other cars on the street....it's a waste of time. Mini's are never going be as fast as a plain jane stock 5.0 Mustang or LS Camaro (or any other number of cars).

As far as spinning the tires, my JCW will spin the crap out of the front tire(s) in 1st and most of 2nd gear, and I don't think it's making anything close to 245hp....probably more like 215-220. So adding another 30-50hp with nitrous (and a bunch more torque).....yes, I would imagine it would be hard to put the power down to the ground. Like I said, it would be just for messing around with...not worth it if you are actually trying to win drag races on the street.
 
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Old 09-27-2015, 06:47 PM
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Last edited by ottawa; 09-28-2015 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 09-27-2015, 09:53 PM
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Ya NO2 can be pretty scary if not done properly. In addition to a proper nitrous install, the proper internals are also equally important. Believe it or not, nitrous DOES explode things when not done right. Ask me how I know! (RIP 350z)

Not an R53 internals expert so it's beyond my expertise but I have raced in many SCCA and NHRA events in all kinds of JDM gems with NO2. The engine needs to be set up to accept nitrous, not just tuned or flashed (in most cases). Personally, I avoid it. Too much stress and repairs. I find (for the most part) driver skill makes FAR more of a difference, especially with drag, than any shot.
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 04:30 AM
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Last edited by ottawa; 09-28-2015 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 09-28-2015, 06:03 AM
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the internals should be billet pistons, not sure on crank, I wouldn't think cast pistons can hold SC temps. as for the injection style, the best bet would be going into a wet system. fogging pre IC im not sure would help. so long as its a wet system, shouldn't need a tune, the tune would be only necessary if you need larger injectors.


ive considered a NOS system, since other than a pulley, that's prolly the best $ per HP. I haven't followed through, only because I still need the space, mounting a bottle would be interesting in a daily driver


EDIT: Crank is forged, rods are forged, piston is aluminum construction and has grafal coating on skirts, with a concave dish ( id imagine forged )
 

Last edited by Saltysalt; 09-28-2015 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Saltysalt View Post
the internals should be billet pistons, not sure on crank, I wouldn't think cast pistons can hold SC temps. as for the injection style, the best bet would be going into a wet system. fogging pre IC im not sure would help. so long as its a wet system, shouldn't need a tune, the tune would be only necessary if you need larger injectors.


ive considered a NOS system, since other than a pulley, that's prolly the best $ per HP. I haven't followed through, only because I still need the space, mounting a bottle would be interesting in a daily driver


EDIT: Crank is forged, rods are forged, piston is aluminum construction and has grafal coating on skirts, with a concave dish ( id imagine forged )
The one thing about running Nitrous is that you should really pull out a few degrees of timing to keep the motor from detonating ( I ran 38 degrees total timing on my SBC drag car, and 32 degrees when the 175hp shot of nitrous came on). This is a perfect example of why it would be so handy to have some aftermarket MINI tuning software....but since there is only one option out there that has pretty mixed reviews($750 Bytetronik software), the "do-it-yourselver" is stuck with either running stock timing, or paying a "mini tuner" hundred of dollars for a custom tune to pull out a few degrees of timing.

As far as injectors go....no need for them if you are using a wet system, all of the extra fuel is fed through the fogger nozzle. If you want more or less fuel, just change out the just.
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by IQRaceworks View Post
The one thing about running Nitrous is that you should really pull out a few degrees of timing to keep the motor from detonating ( I ran 38 degrees total timing on my SBC drag car, and 32 degrees when the 175hp shot of nitrous came on). This is a perfect example of why it would be so handy to have some aftermarket MINI tuning software....but since there is only one option out there that has pretty mixed reviews($750 Bytetronik software), the "do-it-yourselver" is stuck with either running stock timing, or paying a "mini tuner" hundred of dollars for a custom tune to pull out a few degrees of timing.

As far as injectors go....no need for them if you are using a wet system, all of the extra fuel is fed through the fogger nozzle. If you want more or less fuel, just change out the just.

yeah I didn't think changing of injectors needed to happen unless the user wanted to. also since your drag car was only N/A and NoS, don't we already have the different timing effects from being forced inducted. granted I don't know what the actual timing sequence is. having the full access byetronic wouldn't be terrible idea either to change that
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Saltysalt View Post
yeah I didn't think changing of injectors needed to happen unless the user wanted to. also since your drag car was only N/A and NoS, don't we already have the different timing effects from being forced inducted. granted I don't know what the actual timing sequence is. having the full access byetronic wouldn't be terrible idea either to change that
I know this is kind of a side topic....but does anyone know of another software out there that will let you do you ouw tuning besides Bytetronic? What software do guys like Jan(RMW) and Way (WMW) use to tune customers cars?
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
who ever said anything about drag racing... The MINI is more than competitive in racing events. Simply ask how I know.


As for street, my R53 has had it's fair share of Ls2 and 5.0l run abouts. Say what you want, but you are incorrect. My roommate, like you, thought the same. Let's just say his Ls2 GTO got walked. I'm not here to boast, I just find it funny.


Looking at your mod list, i do agree, you're about 205-210crank hp. If you're having issues putting that down it's either your tires, open differential or simply the way you drive.


With out a doubt, if that other car (ls_, 5.0) has simple bolt ons and a tune, it'll walk away. However, most of us use these cars for far more than street and or drag racing. I bet you'll be hard pressed to find a vehicle that can keep up in a tight auto x event or The Dragon. I will agree on larger race tracks like Sebring, horsepower is still king... However, unless it's a professional driver, you pass new Z06, Porsche GT3 and the like with ease.


As for N02, do it. It'll be fun... Just make sure you tune for it. You will not like the consequences if you don't... My .02$
I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. But....I find it hard to believe that your MINI walked away from a 400hp LS2 GTO...unless your "room mate" didn't know how to drive it.
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by IQRaceworks View Post
I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. But....I find it hard to believe that your MINI walked away from a 400hp LS2 GTO...unless your "room mate" didn't know how to drive it.
I also find it extremely hard to believe that you could beat a GT3 on any track... If a MCS could easily beat the GT3 with equal drivers, Porsche would already be out of business.

Sidebar. At least our Minis have correct emission reports.
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by XsV View Post
I also find it extremely hard to believe that you could beat a GT3 on any track... If a MCS could easily beat the GT3 with equal drivers, Porsche would already be out of business.

Sidebar. At least our Minis have correct emission reports.

I agree with all of that also
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:50 AM
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I think it's foolish to spend thousands on engine mods in order for someone to attempt to get 230+hp out of a mini motor... it's still really not enough power to do anything with on the street if you want to win drag races.
My main problem with nitrous is that yes it's a quick way to add HP, but once the bottle is empty, you're back to normal. I like my power like my sharpie, permanent.

As someone who spent countless hours at a drag strip with my previous car, I would never take my Mini back there, even tho I've tried two runs with it when it was fairly stock. The weight to hp ratio is something important on a 1/4 mile and the Mini already starts with the handicap of being heavy for its size. It is however fairly well geared. (05-06 at least, I can't speak for the previous years)
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Da_Ghost View Post
My main problem with nitrous is that yes it's a quick way to add HP, but once the bottle is empty, you're back to normal. I like my power like my sharpie, permanent.

As someone who spent countless hours at a drag strip with my previous car, I would never take my Mini back there, even tho I've tried two runs with it when it was fairly stock. The weight to hp ratio is something important on a 1/4 mile and the Mini already starts with the handicap of being heavy for its size. It is however fairly well geared. (05-06 at least, I can't speak for the previous years)
Yep, I agree. That's why I think if you are wanting to make your mini fast in a "drag" type situation by throwing tons of money at the motor, you are wasting your money. Mini's are made for the track.....twisty ones, not straight 1/4 track
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:14 PM
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Last edited by ottawa; 09-28-2015 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:19 PM
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Last edited by ottawa; 09-28-2015 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
2450lbs at 254whp ( figure 285hp? )vs 3700lbs at 400 hp.


R53 would be .116 vs GTO of .107. The closer to 1.00 the better hp/weight, correct? Mathematically, it's more than plausible.


We rolled from 40mph to north of 110, I believe he was closing on me only after 110mph but still had to make up a 2 car lead.
I'd love to hear what you did to your r53 motor to get 285hp out of it. Pics?
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by IQRaceworks View Post
I'd love to hear what you did to your r53 motor to get 285hp out of it. Pics?
he's talking hp to weight ratio. 275 isn't that hard to get from the r53
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:57 PM
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Last edited by ottawa; 09-28-2015 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by bavmotors View Post
he's talking hp to weight ratio. 275 isn't that hard to get from the r53
I'm still going with the guy in the 400hp LS2 GTO didn't know how to drive

Stock GTO's run close to 13 flat in the 1/4....the only mini's I've seen even get into the mid 13's have had all the standard mods (head, header, cam, intake, pulley, exhaust)....and a 50hp shot of nitrous and/or a twincharger setup.....and they spin the tires like crazy and don't go anywhere.

But.....if he says he spanked it, well.....I guess that's the story I will go with
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:13 PM
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Last edited by ottawa; 09-28-2015 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:21 PM
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Do you have a link to the race video, I enjoy a good laugh
 
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:23 PM
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Last edited by ottawa; 09-28-2015 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Sadly no, we were just messing about on a country road. I think I have a video of my R53 pulling on a 2015 Mustang Gt 5.0.

Let me see if I can find it.
So now you are outrunning 435hp 5.0 mustangs? Maybe you should race someone who knows how to drive ...
 

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