Drivetrain Historic dyno moment 24.1.09
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 160
Likes: 2
From: Clovis, CA
What is really amazing is the comparisons from the same day.
Ruskins car looks basically stock and full weight except for a cam, header and tune. He has a stock head and 11% pulley.
Ruskins runs two tenths slower and 1mph less than Paul's car. Paul's car has a head, 17% and everything else you can imagine and it is gutted down to nothing.
Either Ruskins driving defies the laws of physics, or Paul has a serious issue. Paul's car was faster with the stock head. How can that be?
Ruskins car looks basically stock and full weight except for a cam, header and tune. He has a stock head and 11% pulley.
Ruskins runs two tenths slower and 1mph less than Paul's car. Paul's car has a head, 17% and everything else you can imagine and it is gutted down to nothing.
Either Ruskins driving defies the laws of physics, or Paul has a serious issue. Paul's car was faster with the stock head. How can that be?
LOL...the only what that was repeatable? 1/4 mile time? Dyno graph? vBox figure?
Physics - which bit, classical mechanics, thermodynamics, electromagnetism, relativity, quantum mechanics???
You seem to think I'm junking your head here... I'm not, remember when your only goal was to beat GTT in the horsepower race in the UK, well how did we do that??? Your head mixed with a shed load of other quality parts and then we backed it up on th drag strip so Roland couldn't counter... drag racing times were good enough for you then so whats changed.
Physics - which bit, classical mechanics, thermodynamics, electromagnetism, relativity, quantum mechanics???
You seem to think I'm junking your head here... I'm not, remember when your only goal was to beat GTT in the horsepower race in the UK, well how did we do that??? Your head mixed with a shed load of other quality parts and then we backed it up on th drag strip so Roland couldn't counter... drag racing times were good enough for you then so whats changed.
if the drag racing is the end all be all then a gutted car on slicks with a 17% pulley , the Thumper head and semi pro driver is only 1mph than stock JCW car with header and cam on street tires.
You cannot make excuses if this is your argument.........
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
Well Mr. Physics, if you could read a dyno plot you'll notice that the runs were only to 7000rpm because of everyones whining about comparable numbers at stock rev limits. My car will make power all the way to 8000, we usually cut the runs at 7600.
Next question.
Next question.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
From: Flitwick UK
Look out the experts are out I have two things to pull off the car now which are the following 1; The Apexi Safc2; The engine wiring loomAs I've said in a previous post I've only averaged 2-4 hrs sleep a night on project which I hope to get the contract for, work first play later.I knew the car wasn't right on the way home Sat night, on the 4th acceleration test it went really well so I knew I still had gremlins, but guess what I still turned up and was so proud off Jove running what he did, just means I have to go 109 now.There has been some weird **** happening just lately with the AFC so I presume its that. Dont forget I've only had the head on for two weeks, how long did it take for you do Longboards Rotrex before you were happy with it or the water metk kit? I found if you use 240 in the horepower drag racing formula, based from Ruskins acheivng 101.9 and weighing in at 2750 (guesstimate) his come out at 210 exactly the same as he made on the dynapack hub dyno.So based on that, Jove made 229 (230 hub horsepower on dyno) and I made 210 (227 hub horsepower on dynapack) So it was quite obvious I had problems, even a 9 year old worked it out and i behaved myself quite well by not doing what he suggested."just switch the nitrous on Dad"
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 160
Likes: 2
From: Clovis, CA
I'll repeat what I've said before... Paul's car was not running right on the day, the issue seemed to be electrical but until he's had a chance to look at the car properly I'm none the wiser and am only speculating. Once he has I'm sure he'll be on here giving everyone the diagnosis. However, it didn't perform on the day, just as mine didn't at the AMD RR day when it made only 263 bhp... but you have to live with it, work the problem and come back bigger and stronger to prove the maximum the car can offer.
Jove's car did this on Sunday... there is no way he can go quicker than 13.1 with his current set-up, there is no more to give and I'm sure Pauls car with the Thumper head will get to that point soon enough. Afterall it took Jove the best part of 3 months to prove what an RMW car can do in the UK, so I think it's only fair to allow Paul to do the same with the Thumper head.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
Look out the experts are outI have two things to pull off th ecra now which are the following1; The Apexi Safc2; The engine wiring loomAs I've said in a previous post I've only averaged 2-4 hrs sleep a night on project which I hope to get the contract for, work first play later.I knew the car wasn't right on as on the 4th acceleration test it went really well so I knew I still had gremlins, but guess what I still turned up and was so proud off Jove running what he did, just means I have to go 109 now.There has been some weird **** happening just lately with the AFC so I presume its that.Dont forget I've only had the head on for two weeks, how long did it take for you do Longboards Rotrex before you were happy with it or the water metk kit?I found if you use 240 in the horepower drag racing formula based from Ruskins acheivng 101.9 and weighing in at 2750 (guesstimate) his come out at 210 exactly the same as he made on the dynapack hub dyno.So based on that, Jove made 229 (230 hub horsepower on dyno) and I made 210 (227 hub horsepower on dynapack) So it was quite obvious I had problems, even a 9 year old worked it out and i behaved myself quite well by not doing what he suggested."just switch the nitrous on Dad"
Changing a head is a bit different than developing a completely new system like the Rotrex. Do you think you are breaking new ground installing a head?
by the looks of all of these threads.... I would say....NEVER
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 160
Likes: 2
From: Clovis, CA
Ah ok thanks for explaining, so without meth it makes how much at 7600?
Banned
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
From: Flitwick UK
Is it in Wellingborough? If so, the temp and humidity for this last weekend put the DA at about -1200 to -1500 ft depending on time, etc. So you would have to multiply your ETs by 1.012-1.02 to get an equivalent time on a normal day (and multiply trap speeds by .98 to .988 to get equivalent traps.
Sounds like you guys get some decent atmospherics, even if the temps are too cold for good traction. Kind of like Englishtown which will see DAs as low -2000 ft or more during the right time of year. By comparison, our west coast tracks are lucky to see DAs of less than +1000 ft and will often go over +2000 ft (Palmdale used to see +5000 ft in the summer).
I use this calculator for Density Altitude and then just look up NHRA Density Altitude correction and you'll find tables all over the net.
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da_rh.htm
Long story short, a day like you guys had last week would be about 3% faster than a solid day at a track like Pomona (800 ft, 59F, 0% humidity - and Pomona rarely gets that cool).
p.s. - turbo cars need not apply since they can make up for atmospheric changes with more boost - to a point
Sounds like you guys get some decent atmospherics, even if the temps are too cold for good traction. Kind of like Englishtown which will see DAs as low -2000 ft or more during the right time of year. By comparison, our west coast tracks are lucky to see DAs of less than +1000 ft and will often go over +2000 ft (Palmdale used to see +5000 ft in the summer).
I use this calculator for Density Altitude and then just look up NHRA Density Altitude correction and you'll find tables all over the net.
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da_rh.htm
Long story short, a day like you guys had last week would be about 3% faster than a solid day at a track like Pomona (800 ft, 59F, 0% humidity - and Pomona rarely gets that cool).
p.s. - turbo cars need not apply since they can make up for atmospheric changes with more boost - to a point
so thanks again Paul for proving my point that drag racing is variable based on conditions...... drivers...... equipment......... blah blah blah
Banned
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
From: Flitwick UK
As we pointed out in the other thread we only have 3 tracks in the UK and they are all at sea level.You're not going to believe this but we dont have a SOW here either.But hey Shawn has a performance box just waiting for you to use on teh TVS when its done, do you know when that'll be?
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
Doesn't matter, at 7000 without meth it still made more than any of you. Why do you care, I won't post any times so it doesn't matter anyway right? But thanks for asking. I enjoy going and dusting the 262 off the mantle for your questions.
As we pointed out in the other thread we only have 3 tracks in the UK and they are all at sea level.You're not going to believe this but we dont have a SOW here either.But hey Shawn has a performance box just waiting for you to use on teh TVS when its done, do you know when that'll be?
as I told you before..........I will go sub 2 at Buttonwillow
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 160
Likes: 2
From: Clovis, CA
Oh ok so I get your thinking here... so your saying Churches Dyno will read exactly the same as the Thor dyno i.e if I run my car at Thor then ship it to Churches it'll give the same hp reading?
Banned
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
From: Flitwick UK
Dont you know nothing??? I cant believ you called yourself a drag racer.2 differnt drivers same car 101.9 mph: 1 x Pro driver: 1 x Owner
yes....
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 160
Likes: 2
From: Clovis, CA
3rd Gear
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 160
Likes: 2
From: Clovis, CA
Interesting... so you'll stand by this statement if I drive from one dynapack to another on the same day and get 2 different readings?
I'll happily take 'You'd need to take the average of the 2 readings' as your answer
I'll happily take 'You'd need to take the average of the 2 readings' as your answer
5th Gear
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
1mph and an AFC, Paul I just don't understand?