You're absolutley right. The BS meters usually go off long before a calculator gets picked up.
We wouldn't leave you out if just for the comedic relief

 

based on the prior experiences (DFIC V1 testing....intake shootout)....the scrutiny came from the haters not the fanboys.

Howe....since you're seriously considering this, check out the intake shootout we put together. See how we did it....find places to make improvements etc. We did the same thing as you're thinking....we invited any vendor who was interested to join in...share their input and products for testing.

http://www.motoringunderground.com/f...read.php?t=700

 

One vendor's fanbois are another one's haters. Don't make me bring out examples.

 

thanks for that link....excellent! it preceded my time in the MINI world and I had no idea it was done.

 

orly? I always assumed you had been around longer....we'd do things differently a second time around, but it's still a good read and the info is still pretty helpful

Oh...i know. It's pretty apparent.

 

I would be willing to donate $25 or $50, depending how many others would contribute, to help with labor and cost. Think of all the money we could have saved by not buying certain products (e.g., Plasma booster, Throttle bodies) if there was a "consumer reports" for MINI performance products. An Intercooler shootout with be great!

 

Rally,

I skimmed the testing and some feedback. I can see some people questioning the testing, but all three were tested the exact same. Could there have been a different warm up scedule or bedding in of the ECU? Maybe. I wasn't there, nor involved in the setup or testing so I don't want to comment on what I don't know, but it looks like everyone was treated fairly. Frankly, I'm not sure I would have invited the vendors, if so they would have to stay behind a rope.
Is there anyhting you would have done differently looking back on it?

 

Well that's much appreciated and we may need it. If this thing gets some legs we may just do it. Unfortunately may day job has me on 12 hours days with about 2 weeks left on the contract so I'm a bit busy. Maybe I'll PM some folks this week if I have time and see if it's something they would like to be involved in.
The intercoolers should be relatively easy to come by. I can probably sport most of the datalogging equipment. It's the driver and track fee's I have no clue about and will have to do some research on. If the tracks are to expensive or full, maybe we can get an airport or something similar and set it up like Top Gear. Question is, who gets to be The STIG?

 

I don't understand your question. What do you mean gets? There can be only one, Highlander. There can be only one!

 

 

Very productive, thanks for your well informed, well put info as usual.

 

 

 

 

It is absolutely unbelievable that it would have to come down to us having to put up money simpley to get numbers for comparing the effectiveness of these products. these vendors are worse than criminals, i mean, there are drug dealers who will let you know exactly what you're getting before you ever spend a dime on their product. Thats cracked out- criminals with better business ethics than some of our "trusted" vendors.

The way they sell their stuff is so shady, it's like someone trying to sell you a pair of shoes without telling you what size they are. If theres no numbers to go by, who would buy that shoe? who would risk spending money on a pair of shoes that might not fit? no one, especially if the seller was asking for price of ~$800. THe case with alta and m7 is no different than this. I wish alta and m7 could see this and realize they might get more clients if they simply said right up front that this is our product and this is what it does,here are the numbers to expect.

its all about trust and its difficult to trust someone who's saying "hey buy my stuff, its the best, but dont ask me for any proof, just give me your money!" its just not the best way to build credibility

 

Free country, open market. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head and making them buy a product without numbers.... and it's not like people are having their cars towed to these vendor's shops and being told they must buy an intercooler to fix their car. I think it's a bit over dramatic to say that the vendors are "worse than criminals"... I'd love to hear your take on the orthodontic business.

 

Hey! leave me out of this All I know is this, my car really drove like crap before, it's much more responsive now and funner to drive I noticed a dramatic change as soon as I let the clutch out. At the time in my situation, I needed a different intercooler because I was having to slip the clutch to move my car off the line. I felt uncomfortable to let someone else drive it! I went back to stock, and didn't like that it wasn't building power like the Alta 1 did. Then I got the whole enchilada combo with aerogel heat shields and scoop and my car became a pleasure to drive. I knew that the W2A intercoolers were spendy and more complicated. I also read that an air to air can be more efficient and since I live close to the border of Canada where it's freakin cold up here (although beautiful) I went DFIC, compact and facing the way they should be! IMO
Yes, funner is a word in my book

-Not trying to prove anything-
some sort of#s would be nice though-

 

Ummm...not that I disagree with your point.....but the shoe analogy just doesn't work at all.

When is the last time that you've seen a pair of running shoes that came complete with a list of numbers derived from tests out on a track&field course to prove how much they help you run? What about that $20k-25k car that you bought....come complete with a dyno so you could see what the curve looked like or did they just tell you a specific number for the HP?

The size of the shoe only tells you that it fits.....any vendor here will tell you whether their part fits on an R56 or an R53 just like any shoe company would tell you that their shoe would fit on your size 11 foot or size 10.

The truth of the matter is that many products sold by companies have no numbers to back up their claims or the numbers they claim...(not that I'm okay with that....it's just how things seem to be)

 

Many people are right on different fronts here. No one is holding a gun to you head, the car may feel better..........
but there is one catch from were I stand. You can sell parts without data. You may even sell performance parts without data. But when you come on saying yours is better than most, and make some amazing performance claims about your products, you will be reveiwed by your peers and you must be prepared to defend your claims. This is an open public forum. You will be scrutinized by your peers. Check post 17 of this thread.

 

With all this intercooler rif raff I am going to vouch also for the OEM. I have seen with the OEM intercooler on a hot kansas day +90* I saw 100-120 IAT when running sitting still. When moving I saw it drop down to 80-100 depending on speed. Now on a 80* evening running hard I was at 5-10* above ambient.

 

Absolutely fair.

But not putting up a good defense doesn't make them criminals.
Just might (rightfully so) impact the number of units they sell in the future.

 

i'm glad you're focusing on the analogy but thats hardly the point of my post . the shoe analogy simply points out that it's hard to sell something while with holding important information on the product. would you buy a shoe if you didn't know what size it was, isn't that important info to know when buying a pair of shoes? kind of like hp and IC efficiancy are important to know when looking at IC's

 

see....I think you're missing the point of MY post.

Shoe size is the equivalent of the IC size...not the HP increase. Luckily, the vendor has already provided you with an IC that fits on your size engine....just as a shoe size provides you with a shoe that fits your foot.

Now take running shoes....they are supposed to improve your running performance. The IC is suppose to improve your accelerating performance. They don't give you any proof of a running performance increase just as the vendors don't give you any proof of performance improvements.

They don't have a hard time at all selling "performance" shoes without actually backing up the claims or providing numbers. Again....you're trying to compare two totally different kinds of numbers and trying to draw your point from them.....it doesn't work that way.

 

Rally, you are missing his point. Shoe size is as important to shoes as HP and efficiency is important to IC. That simple.

 

bro my point is not giving important info. i feel like you should be driving a short bus not a mini