Drivetrain M7 vs Alta intercooler, what one and why?
I used a G-Tech performance meter, and a nice long freeway onramp near my house to do the testing. Real world airflow.....
One of the other things I found was that if I let the car idle for longer than about 30 seconds after I came to rest from my "conditioning" drive, I could see a roll off in peak HP number due to heat soak.
Besides having a way to measure the performance of the car, you need some sort of OBD-II data access so that you can make sure that a) the coolant is at proper temps, and that b) the IATs aren't too high (a signature of heat soak). With carefull car conditioning, I could get data that had a standard deviation of a bit less than 2%. If I let the car idle longer and heat soak issues came up, the standard deviation would expode, and it's impossible to really measure the differences in a meaningful way.
Matt
ps, and it gets messier as well. What works best depends on octane as well! What I really learned from all the testing is that the car is much more variable in day to day use than most mods add to performance; that testing parts well is a royal pain in the butt; and that ICs really shouldn't be the start of the mod list..... They should be wayyyy down the line of things to work on.
One of the other things I found was that if I let the car idle for longer than about 30 seconds after I came to rest from my "conditioning" drive, I could see a roll off in peak HP number due to heat soak.
Besides having a way to measure the performance of the car, you need some sort of OBD-II data access so that you can make sure that a) the coolant is at proper temps, and that b) the IATs aren't too high (a signature of heat soak). With carefull car conditioning, I could get data that had a standard deviation of a bit less than 2%. If I let the car idle longer and heat soak issues came up, the standard deviation would expode, and it's impossible to really measure the differences in a meaningful way.
Matt
ps, and it gets messier as well. What works best depends on octane as well! What I really learned from all the testing is that the car is much more variable in day to day use than most mods add to performance; that testing parts well is a royal pain in the butt; and that ICs really shouldn't be the start of the mod list..... They should be wayyyy down the line of things to work on.
So Matt,
Would you suggest running a series of short controlled runs instead of one large drive with varied conditions?
For instance gathering data from the following test beds individually or all in the same run:
Freeway onramp with the hammer down
Freeway cruising
Spirited canyon run
Suburb driving
I do plan on heat soaking the IC's at the same point to see how they recover.
Of course testing on the street and on the same day is going to provide challenges
-Traffic
-Lights
-Ambient temp variance
-Speed limits
...etc
Oh and I agree with everyone including you when you say that an I.C. should be further down on the list of Mods to buy.
I should be receiving the testing kit that Peter sent me today. I'll try to familiarize myself with it this week
Last edited by Intense; Jun 17, 2008 at 09:01 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
So Matt,
Would you suggest running a series of short controlled runs instead of one large drive with varied conditions?
For instance gathering data from the following test beds individually or all in the same run:
Freeway onramp with the hammer down
Freeway cruising
Spirited canyon run
Suburb driving
I do plan on heat soaking the IC's at the same point to see how they recover.
Of course testing on the street and on the same day is going to provide challenges
-Traffic
-Lights
-Ambient temp variance
-Speed limits
...etc
Oh and I agree with everyone including you when you say that an I.C. should be further down on the list of Mods to buy.
I should be receiving the testing kit that Peter sent me today. I'll try to familiarize myself with it this week
Would you suggest running a series of short controlled runs instead of one large drive with varied conditions?
For instance gathering data from the following test beds individually or all in the same run:
Freeway onramp with the hammer down
Freeway cruising
Spirited canyon run
Suburb driving
I do plan on heat soaking the IC's at the same point to see how they recover.
Of course testing on the street and on the same day is going to provide challenges
-Traffic
-Lights
-Ambient temp variance
-Speed limits
...etc
Oh and I agree with everyone including you when you say that an I.C. should be further down on the list of Mods to buy.
I should be receiving the testing kit that Peter sent me today. I'll try to familiarize myself with it this week
So Matt,
Would you suggest running a series of short controlled runs instead of one large drive with varied conditions?
For instance gathering data from the following test beds individually or all in the same run:
Freeway onramp with the hammer down
Freeway cruising
Spirited canyon run
Suburb driving
I do plan on heat soaking the IC's at the same point to see how they recover.
Of course testing on the street and on the same day is going to provide challenges
-Traffic
-Lights
-Ambient temp variance
-Speed limits
...etc
Oh and I agree with everyone including you when you say that an I.C. should be further down on the list of Mods to buy.
I should be receiving the testing kit that Peter sent me today. I'll try to familiarize myself with it this week
Would you suggest running a series of short controlled runs instead of one large drive with varied conditions?
For instance gathering data from the following test beds individually or all in the same run:
Freeway onramp with the hammer down
Freeway cruising
Spirited canyon run
Suburb driving
I do plan on heat soaking the IC's at the same point to see how they recover.
Of course testing on the street and on the same day is going to provide challenges
-Traffic
-Lights
-Ambient temp variance
-Speed limits
...etc
Oh and I agree with everyone including you when you say that an I.C. should be further down on the list of Mods to buy.
I should be receiving the testing kit that Peter sent me today. I'll try to familiarize myself with it this week
While I'm the least expert here, when I did testing for DocO - I went out early one Sunday onto the turnpike - ran the car in 3rd gear 3000 rpms - waited for numbers to stabilize and recorded. Bumped up to 3rd / 4000 rpms repeat, 3rd /5000 repeated and so on in 4th gear, 5th and 6th. No clue what equipment you will be using but in my case I had my son as co-pilot recording the two thermometers and pressure gauge.
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From: As far away from Florida as I can get.
While I'm the least expert here, when I did testing for DocO - I went out early one Sunday onto the turnpike - ran the car in 3rd gear 3000 rpms - waited for numbers to stabilize and recorded. Bumped up to 3rd / 4000 rpms repeat, 3rd /5000 repeated and so on in 4th gear, 5th and 6th. No clue what equipment you will be using but in my case I had my son as co-pilot recording the two thermometers and pressure gauge.
Thanks, and just so you know. I don't have any hard feelings toward you. Your a smart guy, use it for good man 
Funny how this testing turned into as big a thing as it did. I just wanted to try getting some real world numbers to help out and its like the fires of hell erupted
Funny how this testing turned into as big a thing as it did. I just wanted to try getting some real world numbers to help out and its like the fires of hell erupted
While I'm the least expert here, when I did testing for DocO - I went out early one Sunday onto the turnpike - ran the car in 3rd gear 3000 rpms - waited for numbers to stabilize and recorded. Bumped up to 3rd / 4000 rpms repeat, 3rd /5000 repeated and so on in 4th gear, 5th and 6th. No clue what equipment you will be using but in my case I had my son as co-pilot recording the two thermometers and pressure gauge.
I wanted to try and do this going all the way thru the gears and RPM ranges as well on each intercooler. ....well, at least thru third then back off
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Thanks, and just so you know. I don't have any hard feelings toward you. Your a smart guy, use it for good man
Funny how this testing turned into as big a thing as it did. I just wanted to try getting some real world numbers to help out and its like the fires of hell erupted
Funny how this testing turned into as big a thing as it did. I just wanted to try getting some real world numbers to help out and its like the fires of hell erupted
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
I've ruffled quite a few feathers (Apparently people dislike me so much that they've gone to the lengths of posting my information on various sites to try to make me look bad), and have nothing to gain or offer by being actively involved on NAM anymore.
Good luck to all!
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From: As far away from Florida as I can get.
No man, no. Leave it alone. It showed class.
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
So he's back for ten min and already you two take the thread off topic. There was some good progress being made here. Let's stay on topic PLEASE
Intense, that would be cool if you made some sort of youtube video out of this somehow. 
It would be cool just to hear it and check out your car as well.
It would be cool just to hear it and check out your car as well.
Last edited by ClintTheMiniOwner; Jun 17, 2008 at 01:07 PM.
....nothing like showing the community how big O noobs we are in real life eh?
For real tho, were going to try to video what we can.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
It's certainly creative though. Managed to track the IP and domain routing of the e-mail sent to Jan and myself, as well as a few website posts (I actually know the city of origin). Working the appropriate channels.
Post some pics of the setup when you get a chance Intense!
I noticed my intercooler was cold as ice on the dyno this weekend during the tune. We used a squirl cage fan and sprayed water around the IC before the dyno pulls. (standard procedure) On the drive home it sure felt like the DFIC was working better than ever on the street. It got alot of attention in the parking lot too
I noticed my intercooler was cold as ice on the dyno this weekend during the tune. We used a squirl cage fan and sprayed water around the IC before the dyno pulls. (standard procedure) On the drive home it sure felt like the DFIC was working better than ever on the street. It got alot of attention in the parking lot too
Here's an update for you. I wasn't able to get the testing done this weekend like I hoped.
I helped a club member install coilovers, sway bar, control arms, 17% pully, and a short shifter all with a cold.
Felt like crap Sun. went to the doc today and found out I have a cold and a ear infection to go with it.
Anyway, the equipment M7 sent me appears to be temp reading equipment. I'm going to call Nardo and see if it reads pressures as well.
Anyway, I hope to get it done next weekend.
What were your final numbers Clint?
EDIT: Nevermind! I see them in your sig. excellent numbers =)
I helped a club member install coilovers, sway bar, control arms, 17% pully, and a short shifter all with a cold.
Felt like crap Sun. went to the doc today and found out I have a cold and a ear infection to go with it.
Anyway, the equipment M7 sent me appears to be temp reading equipment. I'm going to call Nardo and see if it reads pressures as well.Anyway, I hope to get it done next weekend.
What were your final numbers Clint?
EDIT: Nevermind! I see them in your sig. excellent numbers =)
Adam,
I have a question for you. I have noticed a issue with both of your intercoolers the top mount and the flow thru. They both sit directly on top of the of the stock intercooler mount points on the intake manifold. Have you seen any failure from this? Have you had any actually wear thru? The one I had, and others I've seen actually have quite a bit of wear from engine vibration.
I am also very interested in adding a sprayer on my M7 DFIC. Does your sprayer use an existing washer pump and tank on the car? I have a convertible so I am looking for something that can be run independent of the rear wiper set up.
Thanks
Rob
I have a question for you. I have noticed a issue with both of your intercoolers the top mount and the flow thru. They both sit directly on top of the of the stock intercooler mount points on the intake manifold. Have you seen any failure from this? Have you had any actually wear thru? The one I had, and others I've seen actually have quite a bit of wear from engine vibration.
I am also very interested in adding a sprayer on my M7 DFIC. Does your sprayer use an existing washer pump and tank on the car? I have a convertible so I am looking for something that can be run independent of the rear wiper set up.
Thanks
Rob
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Adam,
I have a question for you. I have noticed a issue with both of your intercoolers the top mount and the flow thru. They both sit directly on top of the of the stock intercooler mount points on the intake manifold. Have you seen any failure from this? Have you had any actually wear thru? The one I had, and others I've seen actually have quite a bit of wear from engine vibration.
I am also very interested in adding a sprayer on my M7 DFIC. Does your sprayer use an existing washer pump and tank on the car? I have a convertible so I am looking for something that can be run independent of the rear wiper set up.
Thanks
Rob
I have a question for you. I have noticed a issue with both of your intercoolers the top mount and the flow thru. They both sit directly on top of the of the stock intercooler mount points on the intake manifold. Have you seen any failure from this? Have you had any actually wear thru? The one I had, and others I've seen actually have quite a bit of wear from engine vibration.
I am also very interested in adding a sprayer on my M7 DFIC. Does your sprayer use an existing washer pump and tank on the car? I have a convertible so I am looking for something that can be run independent of the rear wiper set up.
Thanks
Rob
I'm also curious to know if they sell independent pumps, hoses nozzles etc.