Here is something that I don't understand at all. I hope that someone can please explain it to me.

I read this contradiction allot on this board.

"You don't need a intercooler upgrade until further down the mod list"

then in the same thread I will read from the same user

"I have over 250hp and the stock IC is by far the best"

If someone can explain that too me I would much appreciate it, what am I missing here. Or is it a tactic so people won't buy from a vendor?

Always been baffled by that one

 

Are probes that stick into the airflow from the ic boots going to be that much more inaccurate than ones that drilled into the horns?

Just asking the question, I don't know

 

The guy who has done more testing of IC's then even the people who make them comes in here explaining it all very clear and non of you here him

Thanks Doc! I always look forward to you killing a thread with basic reasoning. You always make it sound simple which it isn't.

And Happy Fathers Day to you in advance .

Bryan

 

I have actually been reading his post trying to wrap my head around it.
I do have some comments/responses broken out after the quotes.
Believe me when I say I respect everything you have to offer us Dr.O None of my questions are intended to be derogatory at all. (More risk of the noob in me coming out than anything I'm guessing)

I can see your point here and I agree that just freeway driving will prove nothing. Just running air over IC's will be pointless for everyone. I do plan on a little of everything, freeway, canyon, onramps and normal city driving. My car will be driven with boost believe me in some instances.

I understand the benefit of using a controlled environment for testing. But I have to disagree with you when you say there are only two ways to test. Dyno runs do not take into consideration hood scoop design, air diverters etc. I think these things will play an Integral part in this testing
I think that there is benefit to real world testing as well. Now everyone doesn't live in Utah at 4000ft elevation with canyon roads so the tests I do would certainly have to be taken with a grain of salt.

I guess I'm "hoping" that what I do will show some benefit to users as well

 

Au contrare... I heard him loud and clear... and have MASSIVE respect for the good Dr...just trying to understand if track torture testing can REALLY reliably identify the best performing part for significantly different street/canyon conditions and corresponding driving patterns... I KNOW that there are street conditions that can't be simulated on the track or skidpad for suspension testing... unless your track has washboard pavement.

 

Drag Racing is the worlds worst place for a top mount IAT, a road course is next.

You have to treat IAT as the God of horsepower off a Mini, I know some of you think that its Jan , Peter or Adam, but you wrong because they dont sit on top of your engine every day deciding what IAT you have today and thus what hp you're allowed.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Dr O's IC tests showed that the M7 DFIC was a good IC for the street and had fast heat-soak recovery. I think he referred to it as the "cats meow" for the streeet. At high RPMs the DFIC is not so good. Therefore how can testing the DFIC under extreme track conditions, where we know it sorta sucks, tell us about its street behavior which apparently is pretty damn good???

 

Good point, i would like to see that, Adam Jan, and Peter all sitting on the engine! This is only because of how aggressive the ECU is programmed. Keep that in mind, as this plays into why we choose what we chose.

I got very busy today with things, but a full report will be posted tomorrow.

 

Well, I will respectfully disagree. It is your perception, and maybe that of many others on this board, that your test will actually give any data that means anything. It unequivocally will not.
I cannot, in any way, understand how Physicist's, Scientists, and people who do this for a living can come on and explain how how these things work, and everyone will continue to believe what they "feel" or "like" blindly. There is no use continuing to argue over this. As I said before, this is yours and Peter's party, do what ever you please.

P.S. This as absolutely nothing against you Intense, just against the propagation of bad information

P.S.S. Longboard, I feel your pain.

 

You are one positive person.......NOT! P.S. Who are the physicist's, scientists and people that do this for a living that your talking about? I haven't seen any IC manufactures in this thread? Ala, Bell.www.bellintercoolers.com

 

If you haven't figured it out already, me explaining it again won't help.

 

you haven't helped this thread at all.

 

you have learned well grasshopper

 

believe me... those people who you seek are reading this thread

 

Well man, to be honest with you the last thing that I want to bring to this community is bad information.

If the community feels like its a waste of time then certainly I won't want to waste mine. To do these tests is hours of time swapping, driving, computer and sensor set up. The ONLY reason that I want to do this is for the community. I have no affiliation with Peter or M7 other than I purchased and stand behind some of his parts. I'm not getting paid for this or receiving anything in trade just fyi.

I appreciate every vendor and every member ( yes even you Scottinbend ) out there. I think for the most part everyone is sincerely trying to help each other. Anyway, thats all I was looking to do for you guys. I've made my purchases and I'm content with them. ( Well except for that damn head and header Jan keeps tempting me with ) I just want to help others make their choices.

I respect and value the opinions of Jan at RMW and all you high horsepower racers out there. You guys bring a ton of excellent info, knowledge and parts to this community. I think that the track has inspired the majority of mods that we enjoy today.

I respect and value the opinions of Peter at M7. I have spent hours on the phone with him trouble shooting things that weren't related to any parts of his. He still offered his time to help me. I value the parts I have purchased from him, I think he offers excellent performance products for all of us.

What I guess I'm trying to say is my car has been put together with parts from many vendors. I'm proud of them all, the names in my sig represent hours of research and hours of fun installation time. I like to wear them like a badge. Call me crazy or a nutjob but at the end of the day I'm just a Mini enthusiast like the rest of you. I love my car and I love researching and testing products. I thought it would be a fun challenge for me and that the data could help the NAM community. Thats all... anyway. Its allot of time and effort that will be spent for nothing if thats the general consensus

 

look Rob.... you are the luckiest man on the earth....
as I told you before... it's a win/win for you

your wife get's what she wants and you get your toys for your car too

 

hahaHAHA! I hear ya! The part of this you don't know is she's talking Dr 90120 style man, youve seen his lifestyle right? Whole different price range my friend

 

think quality man... quality

 

Quality parts in hand, and quality parts to drive.... Ah yes, the perfect combo! Back in reality I'm waiting on a financial deal to come thru. Its only a matter of time for both purchases

 

from the man of few emoticons

 

I guess I still have to say that I think the testing will be worth while even if it is just for Intense' piece of mind. Plus being the computer geek that I am, I am looking forward to seeing how this whole system comes together. After all when it comes to Mini I love it all, my wife thinks that I am crazy but I guess I can't understand her quest for new yarn or a new cake design.

I can't wait to see what comes next in this forum. Which valve stems are better? Should I run air in my tires or should I swap it out for Nitrogen? What will the next battle be?

 

Different scoops?

 

I like 31 flavors!

 

Nah... different tires. Since there are dozens of tires available and certainly no one has tried them all, I'm sure we can argue about which one our experience tells us is far better than those we have not tried.

On that note, I must say that stock is better than aftermarket....
Here's one vote for Eagle RS-A runflats!

 

The reason many (including myself) say that IC replacement is further down the mod list is because there are better ways to direct the money in pursuit of performance gains. ICs are tempting, for they are a center piece of the engine bay. For moders its a magnet - having a big bad looking IC when you pop the hood is awesome. I know I have had 4 ICs !!! SO this is why its also further down the list - I.e. do the mods that give you the real HP gains and once done if you still got funds and need that awesome looking engine bay - buy an Ic.

LB has 250 hp and has not found an after market IC to give him anything over the stock IC so logically why change it and spend $$ for no benefit.

The stock IC has proven to do the job very well. No after market IC has delivered better thermal efficiency vs pressure. Some after market ICs have better thermal efficiency but at a cost of pressure drop. Others less pressure drop but at a cost of thermal efficiency. The after market ICs trade one quality for another. Is this BAD? No depending on application.

But its not just HP, its driving (stop and go traffice or a constant 70mph) as well as location (temps and humidity - Canada or Florida).

If your gonna do testing, I would encourage you to talk w/ DocObnoxious who has tested 4 IC units. I would replicate his testing and merge your data w/ his for I think it would give the community the best picture. He already did the M7 DFIC ver1 so adding ver 2 would show us the direction M7 has gone w/ their DFIC development.