Its always made me laugh regarding any NHRA type rules that they associate it with ET rather than mph, so you could run 14.1 at 120mph and that would be okay.

 

Big howe, I'm thinking you can run better than 13.5 FWIW. If you have 259RMW hp it will go much quicker than 13.5.

The @259 is greyed out, like an option that you can't use in your sig. Kind of like a bad remix of Gary Pucked & the Union Gap's "Young Girl"......

 

The IHRA is the same way.

The cage rule is for the hard walls they are using, so I'm told. The car can hit the wall & roll. At most tracks, I'v been to, the wall ends around 1000' giving those top end cars a little more leeway. You make a very good point, mph, there are some cars that don't go till about the 300'

 

Well, I don't like to assume anything, but I'm hoping for 13.5 or better. It may require some BFG drag radials on the front.
Yeah, I greyed the sig, not to brag to loudly. Not sure if most notice it. The car will get up and walk the dog though

 

The only thing you can assume is, something will break, it's just when...... Drag radials will help the > 13.5 cause.

This cage thing is strange, there is a guy in the next town over that races his snowmobile. 2 years we raced our 125 shifter. No cage & we both run a bunch faster than 13.99, the shifter will run high 10.9s on fuel, the sled 8s

Back to the IC selection for this experiment. I believe the you & Paul can end the TE v presure loss argument. Paul has proved the GRS to be a superior solution ( IMHO ) - it is not a boost robber. You need to make a lot of cold clean air ( not much CO or for that mater any other non contributing gas ) to make up for presure drop.

Can't wait to see what you can do. When the day comes, give the car a break, you walk the dog instead.

 

As much as I'd like to see what IC works in everyones testing, I really don't care which is better. I run the stock intercooler and methanol injection. Part of my logging data is to get the best tune for the meth controller. In my opinion(I'll get my flame suit on here) I'm getting more bang for my dollar blowing meth on demand. Not much use putting the money into a IC, the HP/dollar isn't there.
Now, if there were a unit that was outstanding and stood head and shoulders above the rest, I might pick one up. We'll see what the results are.

 

You are on the money. The OE piece works best for most. With an Alta diverter you can pack a lot of ice on it & the fences help contain the ice real well. I hear there's an ice bag you can buy..... For every day driving around here the traffic is bad & no fun. So no mater what I do with water-meth, late night, w/ice - dry ice=way better work best. It's free.....

Your meth setup is atached to your ECU? Or throttle bodie? Or a micro switch on the pedle?

 

It started with a variable boost controller. OK if ambient is constant and so are the conditions, otherwise your playing with the ***** all the time. I then talked with the company and they said an IDC flash was on the way. That never materialized due to hardware/price point issues so it's a combination of two units. Essentially, it's looking at IAT, RPM and boost. Ideally, it would be IDC and IAT, but it's the best I have to work with right now without throwing a full PLC in the car.
I have found you need to look at IAT otherwise you don't use enough or too much depending on ambient and load and in reality it really doesn't take much.
I was testing the sensors Thursday(see above on temp sensor) hooked a MSD pickup to the coil wire, and the boost, is well, easy. I'm going to order 1 or 2 IAT sensors Monday to play with and see what looks good. After that, it will be fully functional and I can start logging(albeit not precisely) with the Dashdyno when ever the car is on. I should be able to grab a lot of relevant, and even more worthless, data. I'm going to play with it for a while then head back to the dyno to see what the hard numbers are.

 

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...hlight=cooling This is 1 of many threads, you may have already read this.

 

Have you looked at the FJO stuff ? I run there nitrous controller and will probably order there IAT guage and sensors soon.

 

Stevecars60,

I remember seeing that thread when it was going. Just looked at the first couple of pages again, I'll read the rest tonight. A couple of thoughts;

1) I have a probe that looks the same. My concern is how fast will it react to say 15-35 degree changes. I took mine, heated it to steady state 250F and then put it in an ice bath, the first 50F goes real fast, but the last 50F takes over 10 seconds. Now assuming both the air rushing past, and the ice bath, are infinite sinks, that's not a real good response time. I'm thinking 1/16" or smaller probes. Some have .020" tips.

2) As for the thermal efficiency calc. It really depends on what you are doing. It doesn't seem to matter what IC you have, a freeway drive will get you an approach of 10-15. If you are in stop and go traffic you are heat soaked. What I would be the most concerned with is, what comes back from heat soak the fastest, and what sheds heat the best under load. Other than that, any IC seems to do the job. Dr. O mentioned that a thermal dispersant coating on the stock IC did as well as some of the aftermarket IC's. I may try that for fun. Right now I have the load issue solved with the meth. I may put a water only squirter on for the outer IC surface and see what that data provides as well.

 

I did look at it briefly, but I really like the PWM valve option on the coolingmist unit. I'm just not fond of PWM control of the pump for controlling flow. The low end gets real messy. I'll take a look at it again so I can talk intelligently about it.

I just took a quick look and it's unclear whether the valve is pulsing or the pump duty cycle is being changed. Now I'm curious.

 

1) the probes that we can get for any reasonable $$ are slow. We put a bunch af medical equipment on my car ( a friend in the business ) that was fast & very expensive. We could record all of the data & print it out. Since it was summer & unstable weather it was impossible to get the data to repeat, making most of the data worthless. However lowering the underhood temps, things like the intake, SC & cold air intake can make big improvments. Someone said "identify the heat source", yup........ everything under the hood is a heat source.

2) Heat soak recovery.... The OE unit is fairly good. The piece I'm using has more mass & has reaches 152f in traffic pretty quick but so does the OE. Since there is more mass & lots more cooling fins it can collect more air & recover almost as quickly & it has less internal restriction. That said, my solution is not for everyone. The load factor will relate directly with the air flow to the IC. The better the flow the cooler it will stay. With a front mount we would not be having this discussion. Coatings are great. I'v used them on pistons, intakes, exhaust headers, valve covers, just about anything that needs to spread or disapate heat, slide, look nice - bling factor, prevent rust....... You could design an IC with a coating but I would not coat the inside or cooling fins on the present offerings. The water squiter works great. I had 1 on my car for about a year - nice simple solution & almost free.

I'll wait & see what you do. Meth is THE way to go, especialy if you plan to race the car. The stuff just plane works. Webster has some good ideas & he really knows what he's doing. Low 12s is quite a feat with his car. I have a 1400lb car that will do 12.6, no blower, 1300cc, w/lots of work, a 120 shot of smack, lots of failures ( had this car since 68 & I should reserect it ). Websters car is at least 700lbs heavier & with an engine smaller than some street Harleys, BTW there are lots of Harleys that weigh more than 700lbs, low 12s is g*d d*mn fast.

 

So what are you running on the car now?

 

There's a few different things I'm looking at, besides the squirter on the outside, the F150 guys shoot water right through the blower. Cools temps down on the outlet side and seals the rotors up a bit for more peak boost.

The heat source comment is true. The subie guys have the same issue. I've been reading their forums, it seems not many people here are interested or discussing their findings, when they are pushing much more power. I know it's not apples to apples, but the top mount/heatsoak/testing issues are the same.

Lots of things to try and so little time.

 

My 12.16 @ 119 was with a stock IC as I wanted easy acces to the plugs after each run

Untill this year i hadn't realise what effect a burnout has on the IAT, I now realise why a Cooper S engine LOVES nitrous.

I love Big Howe's " Lots of things to try and so little time" Its so true but for me you have to add " and money " on the end as well

 

You're up early for a Sunday, must be getting ready for the race.
I don't have money coming out the wazoo, but it's mainly the time that gets me. Two small kids and self-employment, it never ends, but it's never dull either.

Looked at the FJO controller. It does pulse the solenoid. Looks like a nice setup and a reasonable cost. Not sure it has everything I would want, and is fairly dedicated, it doesn't really have any extra I/O. Would be fun to play with though. If you know someone letting one go let me know.

That burnout has to be horrible for the heat soak.

 

These are two things that I am very interested in as well. I plan on looking at these two things with all 5 intercoolers.

 

The Subie guys are way better off than the Mini. You can get all the plumbing & a front mount - It all fits without a whole bunch of tinkering. Even stock the STI has a monster scoop.

I run a Forge, no water, meth or any air control. 1 thing I found was the removal of the OE plastic scoop was good for a few degrees F lower under hood.

The under hood temps on the Mini is holding us back. I don't think I need to put my fire suit on... yet.
I have a Scion XB with a MP45 on it. No IC. The IAT can only be measured at the air inlet w/scangauge. Fortunately you can get a real CAI for this application. With temp sensors on the SC you can compare the blower temps to the Mini. Since this SC is coated & has almost no air flow restriction, it runs much cooler than the Mini. This cooler running blower along with a "true" CAI makes for a pretty efficient FI solution. No IC necessary, although a Rotrex & a front mount IC ( there 's plenty of room ) would make for more power. I believe the blower coating ( HPC ) is worth look for the Mini.

"Run your car on water" has been around a long time. There are all kinds of methods for doing this. I like the Idea of cooling the blower since it generates a lot of heat directly in the air path. If you look at some AAF cars you can see many injectors, blower, intake manifold, even the exhaust. Next time you are at the drag strip & they are running top fuel cars, see if you can talk to a crew member. It would take way too much time to explain given my poor wrighting skill... not to mention spelling. There is a ton of knowledge to be had at the drag strip.

 

I completely agree about the subie guys having it better but they also have figured some stuff out. They have conceded that the top mount is crap to test, but you still do it all the same. Run to the n-th degree on the dyno to get reliable data, for the most part, and back it up with some real world instrumentation. The real world data, my not be scientific, but they are confirming deltas seen on the dyno and make sure there are no street anomolies. Other than track work it's extemely hard to control the variables taken away by dyno.

They have also figured out(along with many other marques) some ducting and air pressure differential things that are too long winded to put here.

After having a very brief talk with Dr. O, I may have the header ceramic coated when it comes out for the wideband bung. This depends on what kind of turn around they can provide. It's the hottest thing in the engine bay so for heat control it should be at the top of the list.

 

I wish we had the room to work with. The Subie has lots. Their OE top mount is not the best but look at the size of the scoop. I could pack a lot of ice in there. At 65mph, how much air do you think that unit can collect?

Other marques, the EVO comes to mind. These cars are underated. Some of the mods you can do with these cars, for little or nothing, is mind blowing. Every once in a while, while at the mag isle, I'll pick up a street tuner just to see what's up. Some of the Civics, around here, are very quick street fighters. There are a couple of doctor friends with bad *** EVOs.

The coated header is a good place to start. Are you running the OE? If so wraping it is a very good alternative. Many don't like wrap, but I do. It's quiet as well as a cooling agent. There is some gain with the exhaust dynamic cooling the pipes - another long explaination is needed......

 

we have wrapped headers in the past, we saw lower under hood temps but nothing definitive on the dyno

 

so have you done the testing yet? what did you find?

 

I am unsure of the wrap, as the good and bad have been discussed, not sure who to believe. Running the RMW race exhaust. Wrapping it would certainly be better than sending it out for a month.

Did you see the Top Gear episode with the 400+hp factory EVO. Good power but lag was real bad. I think they started the EVO and a 100hp econobox each in 6th gear at 30mph. Floored both cars, if I remember right, they were way up to speed and long ways out, maybe 1/2 mile before the EVO caught up and passed. Quite laughable. They actually chose the lower hp EVO over the higher due to driveability.

 

exactly..... this is why the 2.0L stroker is so much fun to drive, torque on demand instantly EVERYWHERE..... It's also the reason I get around the track so much faster than cars with 100 more hp. While they are waiting for the power to come on I am already out of the corner.

This is why we are staying supercharged but working on other avenues as the turbo cars have not shown anything that I would want for power delivery. Look at Madness turbo car with a pro driver could only muster 1:31 on the same track that I have run 1:28 on . I seriously doubt I can drive better than a pro driver