Matt's just talking statistical significance and confidence intervals. If a couple of these intercoolers(or all of em) are within a few HP with a wide enough standard deviation then you can't actually say that the HP figures are statistically different. ie On just HP: One intercooler you may get stats of 210 HP +- 4 HP 19 times out of 20. Another intercooler may give 208 HP +- 4 HP 19 times out of 20. With those overlapping intervals you can't say they are statistically different.

Hopefully you get lots of data that Matt and others can do stats on to see if there's any differences for this intercooler test. Keep up the good work Intense and gents!

Jeremy

 

Yesterday it was low 80s 51%, today mid 80 78%. You know it's going to be sticky when the outside of your glass fogs with the air on. As the air quality changes, temp, humidity etc it becomes very dificult to find delta, if at all. Delta is first, if you can't repeat, well........ Utah, New Mexico, Arazona might give you 2, 3, maybe more days in a row that your delta will repeat.

Last late July early Aug, with, we thaught, similar days, the numbers were not closer than 17%, even the improvement % ( before & after ) was too far off to be difinitive. The only result was a yes or no. 1/4 mile could tell you the same.

If your agenda is to figure out how the system does, what it does, thats a different story. I'm interested to see what kinds of answers you come up with. This has been discussed here several times. A few sets of new eyes may see the light...

 

Heh, check the Dallas forecast..

Tue 95/77
Wen 95/77
Thurs 95/76
Fri 94/77
Sat 95/76
Sun 95/77
Mon 95/77

 

Today on my way home from work I was watching the FIA - Intake temp on my scanguage II. Ambient was the same Nate 92 degrees. While in stop and go traffic it hovered around 120-130 then I saw spikes of 151 (Weird coincidence I saw the same spike as you) under full throttle. after letting of the throttle it seemed to come back down to 138-142 or so pretty quickly.

The drive time was a total of about 20 min on my way home about half of it freeway. Still playing with the SGII, hopefully its set up right. Going thru it, it looks as if it recognizes what the car and what's running automatically. Does anyone know if there is any special set up for a SGII? Loked like the only thing the user needed to set up was fuel information etc for the trip.

 

Ok,

I want to make sure I am getting accurate readings from this scangaugeII.

When I am idling the reading for the MAP sensor is about 7.0
When I am under full boost WOT I've seen it peak at 26.8

Is that right? Seems high to me or maybe I don't understand what/how its reading exactly.

 

That's within the bounds of reason...

It's reading "manifold absolute pressure" - relative to zero atmospheric pressure (the vacuum of space). Depending on your altitude, atmospheric pressure (which would equal zero boost) is about 10-14.7 psi. MAP of 7 means about -5 to -7psi vacuum. MAP of 26.8 means about 12-15psi of boost, depending on altitude. I'd expect more boost (and higher MAP) with a 17% pulley, but perhaps you get that much pressure drop with the DFIC.

What will be important will be the relative numbers... how much MAP varies across the different ICs. The absolute numbers don't have to mean much (though they're probably pretty accurate - MAP seems to read about 0.2 off on my car and some others...)

Some more details and charts and means of making the ScanGauge display approximate boost are here:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=128221

Where are you in Utah, and what's your altitude? 14.7 - (altitude / 1000 *.5) = approximate atmospheric pressure at your location. Subtract this from MAP to get vacuum/boost.

 

with the car on engine not running to measure what your local pressure is. Then you're boost reading is MAP(runnung value)-MAP(engine off). Like Blimy says, if it's negative, then your manifold is under vacuum (think light load).

Matt

 

Very informative! Thank you very much for your reply

I am just south of Salt Lake City. The elevation of Salt Lake City: 4330 feet. I'm sure this elevation plays greatly into the boost and pressure readings.

It also sounds like I can send my scanguageII in and have xguage installed so it converts automatically. Won't have time to do it before I need it so..
It sounds like your conversion works pretty good. Wish I was better at math... Might need help with the data after I collect it

 

I just went out and read it with the ignition on, car off MAP was 12.4
So if the highest reading I saw today was 26.8 I subtract 12.4 to get 14.4 for a boost reading? Boost / pressure is the same thing right?

so at normal Idling at 7.0 on the MAP reading it would really be -5.4 correct?

 

Exactamundo! You got it.

How old is your ScanGuageII?

 

See people? NAM makes us smarter!

The Scanguage is brand new. I just received it Monday

 

Duh - I knew that... so why the h3ll didn't I just SAY that?

 

Intense, any updates, experiences, stories, conclusions?

 

Is the testing still on for this weekend?

 

Well, not many I actually was out of town basking in the sun last weekend with the fam. I have been familiarizing myself whit the scan gauge for about a week or so. It displays the information in 2-3 second increments I've noticed so were going to have our work cut out in order to get accurate readings. The temp readings I believe we can gather info every .5 seconds so it will be pretty accurate.

I've changed how we are doing the test run a bit from what I posted earlier.

I am going to run the car on cruise down the freeway for about 10 min for each intercooler swap to "condition" the car. I am then going to take it on a highway that has some onramps & stop lights on it.

-I will start by testing what IC sheds heat best under load. Probably make a few runs with each to find a constant.
-Next I will heat soak the IC's to see how quick they recover. Probably make a few runs doing this as well.

I also want to gather some "around town" data to gather info on how they work in normal conditions. Probably some stop and go on the same highway and maybe some canyon driving.

If you guys have any suggestions or other ideas I would certainly appreciate the input and see if I can work it in.

YES! Things are still a go for this weekend

Rob

 

Ok people....

I'm not sure that this testing was ever cut out to be completed.

Today was the day, had everything set... got everything hooked to the car and out we went for some test runs. Route was plotted, test points were set, hardware and software seemed to be running well. All was good!

Well, we made our first test run to get some baselines and everything was great. Had a computer recording air temps, Ambient, inlet, outlet and a video recorder recording the scan guage. Pulled off to grab some lunch and to go over the data to see if we could match up the info recorded with video with that recorded by the comp. We could and were excited to make the real runs and get moving!

Well, we pulled out of the parking lot and headed out. We were recording inlet / outlet temps on along the way when all of a sudden the reading from the outlet side probe started going crazy! It was jumping all over the place reading anywhere from +1400f to -350f. We pulled over to see if we had a short or something and couldn't find a problem. We decided to drive home and pull the intercooler to check the probes.

Well..... we pulled the intercooler off and found that both probes had broken off one, was harmlessly inside of the intercooler. The other however was inside of the intake manifold somewhere Needless to say I couldn't believe my freaking eyes... I had this worry in the back of my mind that these things could fall off. Well, the nightmare came true.

Not knowing where this probe was I pulled my spark plugs to see if it was in the combustion chamber, nothing. I then pulled my fuel rail and injectors to see if I could see it, nothing. I pulled the MAP sensor and peered in, nothing.
We hopped in my friends car and ran to a checker to get a little mechanics positional mirror so we could see into the intake side horn. FINALLY FOUND IT! It was sitting in the hole that leads to the bypass valve!. Thing was so wedged in there.... we spent the next several hours taking off the horn, throttle body, baypass valve etc. and putting it all back together.....

Needless to say, with broken probes and the time sink of our unplanned adventure no testing was done today. I'm just thanking God that probe got stuck in that bypass valve hole and didn't get sucked into a valve or my engine..... Holy Crap was I lucky.

Anyway, I'll have to call Peter Monday to find out if there's some different or better equipment he would be willing to send me. If not, I doubt this will get done. At least not by me. Sorry everyone, I really wanted to get this done this weekend.
I'm very bummed, very disappointed and very lucky.

Here are a few pics of the intercoolers and inserted probes before all went to hell in a hand basket...

The test bed

 

wow Intense! Thank god nothing happened you are indeed lucky. What a shame it would have been for something tragic to happen all in good intentions. Well lets all give Intense a big THANK YOU for at least trying to help us all out. We do appreciate everything you have done so far for this test. Keep us posted!!

Steve

 

Sorry to see it went south. You were making a pretty good run of it. That could have been quite messy and expensive(plus a few other expletives) if one of those had gotten shut in a valve.
Well, you can test fate or quit while you are ahead at this point. If you move ahead make sure your equipment is up to snuff. If not, I don't think anyone would blame you after that close call.
Keep us updated as to what you think you'll do next.

 

"I'm not sure that this testing was ever cut out to be completed"
Intense, you got that right.
Those little pieces parts, I used a piece of nylon screenover the IC under the boot.

 

sad but true. I'm sure when this is all said and done, you'll have a much better eye as to what is a good number, and what percentage of numbers bandied about are total (or at least unverifiable) BS.

Matt

 

Your right Dr. O, so far even with the minimal data I've seen one thing came real clear to me. Getting accurate consistent data for all 5 intercoolers was almost impossible.
Using a scanguage to gather pressure levels, intake temps, RPM and ignition timing was proving to be so difficult with the lag times we were seeing. We actually decided that the only information we could gather with any sort of accuracy was absolutes. The Scanguage just doesn't update quick enough to provide numbers for any sort of "thru the range" logging.

You know Stevescar60, We talked about how we should have used a screen after we were digging the probe out of my intake manifold.... hind sight is always 20/20. I thought these things were designed for the type of abuse they would see. Who knew?

Anyway, here are some pics of the probes after we dug them out. I didn't take any pictures of where it was lodged or the process of digging it out. I was to freaking stressed out and worried to remember the camera

The quarter is in there for scale so you can see the size of this thing that was sucked into my intake manifold. Certainly would have done a number on a valve or two had it got farther. The one on the inside thats all scratched up is the one I had to dig out

 

So those probes are just soldered on....spooky with all that boost! I'm glad your motor is still jim dandy!

Jeremy

 

Have those probe types ever been used successfully for IC testing? Do you know if they were used to gather data previously? What type of probes or system were used during prior IC testing by Dr. O and others? Thanks again for all the effort and I am glad that you car is OK.

 

Why were the square plates even on the ends of the TC's? All a TC junction is is two dissimilar metals joined(it gets more technical for types and such but..). You could literally twist the ends of those wires together without the plate and make the thing work. Usually they are soldered to make sure there is a consistent connection, but you could twist them tightly together. I've done it before for rough monitoring of cooling air in plant equipment. I'm not sure what those units were designed for but that looks dangerous putting them in the intake stream.

 

But M7 said it was ok!

Intense:
Thanks for trying and thank goodness those plates didn't jiggle some other direction