So do other people genius, including the people and vendors posting in the thread. Your not the know all see all stop all sorry to break your heart.

Oh and you can put your favorite emoticon away, its quite old seeing it in your posts as well as the crap you spew.

Please change your name to Captain of BS...... better suits you

 

I'm alright. Unlike most of the people you probably talk down to I actually couldn't give a crap, thus I'll continue to do as I please.


P.S. My heart is still intact, unfortunately.

Lets give Phantom his thread back now, or do you have more internet insults to sling at me...?

 

False....if you're gonna start making definitive statements about products not working or calling them useless....you face just as much obligation for proof as any person or company that claims the opposite and says "this product makes 80hp". You can't just come in and make claims that you can't/don't back up with any sort of proof....that's just as bad as claiming horsepower gains without a dyno plot.

It doesn't matter whether it's your job or not. You've obviously taken it upon yourself to "educate" others to the uselessness of some vendor products.....so you've also taken on the responsibility to back up those claims with test results and proof. How can you require proof from other people and not hold yourself to the same standards?

 

This


Amazing how it works isn't it Rustyboi?? Put your money where your mouth is



lol

 

Bravo

 

WOW!! I didn't realize that the DFIC v.2 was a bar and plate like yours. I remember their ads about imitation being flattery or something like that. I liked your intercooler when I had it. I never noticed heatsoak with it on. On the dyno and after running 20 min sessions at the track it would not be hot to the touch. I never did any data logging or measurements though. I can honestly say that as much as I wanted my $700 worth, there was no WOW factor after installing it. I took it off though because I knew people who were having to lift their hoods for the CHP and those CARB laws here are pretty harsh. I think the point of Rustyboys posts are that if you are looking for big power, changing the intercooler isn't going to do it. You need to save a bit more and go for the head and a tune first, or even just the tune. Both of those mods had a serious WOW!! factor after they were done, nothing, subtle, just WOW!!!

 

These are very relevant observations. As I have reported many times before, and my continued observations and data logging supports the original contention, achieving an approach of 20F or less is very good. I regularly see approaches below 10F during constant highway driving, but these are optimal, very low load conditions. I reported a maximum approach of 35F during a track day with 80+F ambient temperatures. The average approach would have been about 20F in what I'd describe as intense hard track driving on a 1.4mile, 14 corner tight circuit.
Recovery is very important, certainly, but harder to measure and monitor. It is essentially the rate of change of the approach (first derivative wrt time). I haven't done much analysis of this as I don't have real time data logging, only point observations.
As has been mentioned many times in similar threads, temperature drop is only half of the equation, the other is pressure drop as both combine to produce air mass, which is what ultimately enters the combustion chamber. It is harder to measure MAF in our cars as we do not have a MAF sensor, only a IAT sensor and a MAP sensor. Dr Obnxs has posted on these topics elsewhere.

I'm out...

 

Yes, amazing how people take subjective opinions and mold them into "Definitive Facts". Like I said, it's easy to make something sound completely different.

If you want facts, test it yourself. I've shifted my interests, I find it's far more satisfying when people stop drinking the koolaid themselves and figure it out on their own.

Comments like this gem from Peter:
are pretty ridiculous. If I was tied to any particular vendor I'd still be sitting around with his IC on my car stuck at 192 whp. Instead, I drank the RMW koolaid before there even was any, I was one of his first customers, and agreed to go to HIS mechanic, that I didn't know, had no relationship with, etc. I agreed to do it because I was frustrated with the amount of money I had already spent to gain the measly 30 HP I gained.

I had a DFIC on my car with Jan's head, Jan asked me to take it off (I had just bought it a few months earlier, so I was pretty bummed that I just wasted ~$1000). I did, at his request, and surprisingly noticed absolutely no difference in drivability. Hell, the intake temps were the same. It's amazing what happens when you listen to people that have been there before. You find that you spend a lot less money to attain the same result.

P.S.
I happen to be at work now, so sorry I can't come back to bed with you Intense. Perhaps I'll take a rain check on that.

 

That was just mean

 

It's ok... I know once all people have to throw into an argument is a sophomoric jab at my screen name that all hope is lost.

 

Ok ok, granted I stooped a bit low indeed. I can assure you that it won't happen again.
I do apologize to everyone that had to read the last bit of dribble that I've posted.

I am however, more than glad that people have started to question your methods and motives.

 

I love this thread:

Poster#1 "It doesn't work"
Poster#2 "It's your job to prove it doesn't work"



How about having the vendor prove that it does? It's the vendor taking your hard earned money for their BS products. Not Rustyboy for his opinions.

And of course we have Rally to rationalize it all and run it through his logic verifier. You're still full of crap, Rally. But I ain't mad at you.

And I would love to know the M7 car track times for comparison's sake. I've seen the pics so I know they were there. I've even seen the pic of an M7 car with a timing device attached to the front of the car. So I know they had some times.

P.S. Can some one get me a smiley drinking beer. I am not much on popcorn, but I do like my beer. TIA

 

No need to apologize. It takes more than spelling my NAM Screen name wrong to hurt my feelings...

People have always questioned my motives and methods. Nothing new there. Frankly I don't care. People are just as wise to question what I post as they are to question what vendors post.

Use your heads and assess the given information as a whole, rather than taking what any one person says as gospel.

 

This I agree with you on 100%

Some people Race
Some people AutoX
Some people Street
Some people Drag

Whatever your fancy, I think there are products out there that suit every drivers needs. It just seems to me that most things always come back to "how does it perform on the track or dyno?"

Real world drivability and performance seems to get lost in the "track day" sauce so to speak it seems.

 

And that's a problem? To ask proof from the nay-sayers as well as the vendors? Just as I'd like to see proof that a product works well....if someone is gonna come out and definitely tell me that it doesn't work....I'd like to see proof of that as well.

M7: "Our product performs well."

General mass: "Can we see proof that it works well?"

Rusty: "Your product doesn't perform well."

General mass: "Can we see proof that it doesn't work well?"

Seems to make sense to me. He has every right to have the OPINION that it doesn't work (I share that opinion as do many others).....but he's taken it a step farther as he makes definitive statements that the products are useless or don't perform well. There's a difference between "I don't like this product" (opinion) and "Don't waste your money, this product doesn't work".

I apologize for rationalizing it all again...Sorry jnky Just for you:

 

For the most part you're right, I focus a lot on track performance, many people's ears would be bleeding in my car but it doesn't bother me one bit. Really depends on what you're trying to do with your car, but I think most can agree that there are better places to start with modding than any IC.

Dyno results don't mean anything to me other than to compare deltas.

 

I guess I need help understanding how this comment is crap? This comment is one that makes a ton of sense to me. We have new members asking what works and what doesn't and why? Shouldn't people be prepared to tell why?
I mean, Rustyboy hasn't owned a M7 DFIC2 or a Alta DFIC yet they are slandered in this thread??

No offense Rusty =D


EDIT: Actually I'm over it, anyone that has a brain can see Rally's statement isn't crap so my question answers itself

 

This is the funniest thing i have seen almost ever! Its on my blog its so funny.

 

LOL! I thought the same thing when I saw it

Glad you like!

 

You guys are so ridiculous...

Although, if this constant drama on NAM didn't exist, I dunno what I'd do to keep me entertained at work all day. It's definitely a little addicting to watch.

I just have to say though, people take Nick's (rustyboy's) advice and opinions way outta hand. Perhaps its just how he writes where the confusion lies, I don't know. Those that know him in person can safely say that he is one of the most genuine, top-notch MINI enthusiasts around. Both of his MINI's have been modded to the extreme, way ahead of what anyone else had at the time or has now even. He is extremely knowledgeable on what works and what doesn't, and I don't know why people don't understand this, but he's simply trying to guide people and offer his advice onto what has worked for him and what hasn't.

He's been through so many different aftermarket products its not even funny. If you were to ask him how he'd do it if he could do it all over again, he'd tell you straight up that he'd have skipped well over half of the crap that he bought, that was supposedly "the best" at the time when he bought it. That's all he's trying to do...offer the knowledge that he's gained as a consumer/enthusiast over the past few years where many dollars and time was spent (you could even say wasted...). He is a wealth of knowledge and one of the most die-hard MINI enthusiasts you will ever meet...it's sad to see that people don't see that.

 

I've owned stock, Alta V1, DFIC V1 and the GP IC. I currently use a GP IC with sprayer hooked up to the rear washer tank. I've never felt heat soak with the current setup, so, it appears I've made a good choice in the current setup.

 

That about sums up the Nick I know.

 

I agree with you Thumper on your description of Nick (Rustyboy).

I too believe strongly that he is very very informed when it comes to Mini's and their modification. At least what has worked for him and his purpose. The thing that needs to be known is not all of us are racers. What works for him might not work for someone else and what doesn't work for him might be perfect for others.

For me where the line is drawn is when parts that myself and others own and work very very well for us, are called crap. Thats it and thats all.

I don't think I have ever said that his knowledge is lacking in fact I think the opposite. I think he is very well informed and in most cases helpful to the community. Its the bashing of products and vendors that I take offense to.

I'm sure in my rampage I didn't get that across very well but thats the main gist for me.

Anyway, I agree that the IC shouldn't be the first upgrade a person does. I do feel like if someone is asking and wanting to upgrade, this community should be as helpful to that person as possible. Thats what I try to do at least. If I don't like a product (And believe me, I've spent my wad on them. Hell, I've had 4 different intercoolers for cripes sakes! ) You will never see me call a product garbage. I know there are people out their that spend money on those parts I'd be calling crap and they might love them and work excellent for them. I will state why I didn't like it and move on. Hopefully people will be able to move on and make decisions based off helpful info.

 

well...depending on how you look at it, I would agree to some extent. If an item works great for me, but not for someone else, either the guys is an idjit or the product's engineering wasn't solid enough to overcome production variances (which is all too common). A manufacturer saying 'it fit fine for us on the test car' is the ultimate insult. It should fit fine on ALL bone stock cars if it was designed properly.

 

Certainly there are instances where a vendor should receive criticism. Not taking production tolerances into effect should be one of them. That would be either a blatant "we don't care here it is" or a "Huge freaking oversight" that would demand reimbursement or correction.

That type of things happens with mass production and is actually common place. The thing that really matters is how its dealt with.