I'm glad that we both agree that the DFIC is a poor performer on the dyno.

In regular street driving, it does fine. Performance won't be hurt because IATs are low when you're not using the blower and when there is good airflow through the IC. But, under street driving where the supercharger is used (canyons, spirited driving), the IC will heatsoak. On the track...don't bother with it because it will heat up within a lap to two and then it will not have the opportunity to cool down.

For the purposes of ECU tuning, the DFIC is a really bad choice because all good ECU tunes require dyno time and the DFIC will stop cooling the air charge efficiently once it is heated up; in other words, you cannot tune cars with the DFIC as well as you could with other ICs. I've seen a few cars with DFICs on the dyno for tuning, and in each case after a couple of runs the cars were losing power due to high IATs- tuning at this point could not progress. Similarly, if you are interested in dynoing your car, the DFIC will heat soak and leave you sad .

In summary, the DFIC is a poor choice when a) you're driving hard and actually using your supercharger frequently, b) you EVER head to the track, and c) you wish to get an optimized dyno tune or just too see what kind of power your car makes.

If you want something that looks cool, on the other hand, that it does!

 

That's fantastic! You have a strong car. It dynoed way higher than my M7 Cosworth car (with >5k in engine mods) ever did; it dynoed higher than M7's own Cosworth car.

But, and you can ask Jan if you'd like...i'm pretty sure that he'll agree, your car would probably have dynoed even higher without the DFIC (even with the stock IC!).

It's ok if you don't trust me, by the way. I learned the value or lack thereof of M7 performance parts the hard way. It's good to have a healthy level of skepticism- even of me. Skepticism is our only way of finding the truth.

That said, I've seen what I am talking about.

 

it's hard to beat stock or a GP for recovery and low pressure loss. once moving, few cars produce enough heat to make the larger cores beneficial enough to offset their tendency to heatsoak and inherent pressure loss

 

I'm glad that we both agree that the DFIC is a poor performer on the dyno.

It is made to work with air flow no air flow = no work.

In regular street driving, it does fine. Performance won't be hurt because IATs are low when you're not using the blower and when there is good airflow through the IC. But, under street driving where the supercharger is used (canyons, spirited driving), the IC will heatsoak. On the track...don't bother with it because it will heat up within a lap to two and then it will not have the opportunity to cool down.

Do not agree with this at all . According to my Scan Gage 2 the DFIC loses heat and IATs drop almost the moment the car begins to move. I have taken people along for a ride to illustrate this very fact many times.The majority of my driving is " spirited ", to say the least, and if it didnt work I wouldn't run it .

For the purposes of ECU tuning, the DFIC is a really bad choice because all good ECU tunes require dyno time and the DFIC will stop cooling the air charge efficiently once it is heated up; in other words, you cannot tune cars with the DFIC as well as you could with other ICs. I've seen a few cars with DFICs on the dyno for tuning, and in each case after a couple of runs the cars were losing power due to high IATs- tuning at this point could not progress. Similarly, if you are interested in dynoing your car, the DFIC will heat soak and leave you sad .

This all depends on who is doing the tuning . The Dimsport rep for the US , Emile of Vitesse Pro ,has no problem working with the DFIC on a dyno.

In summary, the DFIC is a poor choice when a) you're driving hard and actually using your supercharger frequently, b) you EVER head to the track, and c) you wish to get an optimized dyno tune or just too see what kind of power your car makes.

Again I disagree with your findings but that is the wonder of the internet isn't it ?

If you want something that looks cool, on the other hand, that it does!

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

For those that track and autox that quick recovery time is key smaller thinner and less material is better.

I've had the stocker, alta top mount, GRS and the M7 dfic2 on my car. Three of them on last weekend for some testing actually. For my driving style which is street and daily driving, the dfic produced more power for me then the others. And no, I didn't use any measuring devices other than feel of the car. Anyway, all said and done I'm happy with the dfic, sold my alta and my grs

 

You work for M7, Randy... I honestly doubt that you would run another vendor's intercooler.

Just because he will work on a car with a DFIC does not mean that he would recommend it. It does not mean that the DFIC performs well. He would be silly not to tune a given car- that's what he is paid to do.

A DFIC does not dyno well. It heat soaks quicker on subsequent runs than a stocker would, even with the SAME fans providing the same "insufficient" cooling. It is a fact that you will require more airflow through the core of the DFIC to cool it down. Heat loses power. The DFIC heatsoaks and loses power.

 

Regarding Emile tuning with the DFIC, I have heard (not seen, tbh) that he likes to stick ice bags on them to tune them. Problem solved I suppose .

Of course, I think that a good ol' bag of ice on my stock IC would surely help make my drive around town quicker. Perhaps I should try.

 

Correct story but wrong tuner . Search for the " iceman " on here as well as Motoring Underground.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

.You work for M7, Randy... I honestly doubt that you would run another vendor's intercooler.

I am under no contractural obligation to run M7 parts on my car .I have items from several other vendor's including , Alta, Pro Mini , H-sport, Texas Speed Works, Forge Motorsports etc. If it didn't work on my car It would not be there.



Just because he will work on a car with a DFIC does not mean that he would recommend it. It does not mean that the DFIC performs well. He would be silly not to tune a given car- that's what he is paid to do.

My point was that he has the ability to tune the car with out issues with regards to the DIFC not what he does or does not recommend. You said that tuners have problems with it and I contend that those that know what they are doing do not .

A DFIC does not dyno well. It heat soaks quicker on subsequent runs than a stocker would, even with the SAME fans providing the same "insufficient" cooling. It is a fact that you will require more airflow through the core of the DFIC to cool it down. Heat loses power. The DFIC heatsoaks and loses power.

I agree with everything you say here with regards to dyno runs. I do take exception with regards to the heat soak issue. It may heat up but as soon as you are moving it cools nicely. On spirited driving I am registering between 18 and 25 above ambient with returns to 6 to 8 off boost.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Name one piece on your car that a) is from a different vendor and b) M7 makes a version of. There isn't one, from what I can see. This is of course for good reason... what would the consumer think?

I've said my piece already. I'm quite familiar with M7 products (and that's not something that I'm proud of ). I've used quite a few in my time, and I've seen the DFIC in action. It doesn't produce gains, and what little "data" saying otherwise comes from the vendor (or is promised to exist by said vendor). If you had any relevant data, I'm sure you would have posted it here already. You didn't.

Caveat emptor.

 

[quote=ingsoc;2257286]Name one piece on your car that a) is from a different vendor and b) M7 makes a version of. There isn't one, from what I can see. This is of course for good reason... what would the consumer think?

Ireland Engineering big brake kit , we have our own now and SBC camber plates, we are a dealer for H-sport.

Randy
M7 tuning

 

The chat has been exciting but I finally found the snap shots I took of the production exit scoop which I believe was the original reason for this thread coming alive. Lets get back on track if we can OK ? Nothing artsy here but at least you can see what we have to offer .

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Randy did you notice a difference with the exit scoop installed?

 

Well I have noticed a couple of things actually. One is that the heat from under the hood exits quite rapidly when you are stopped ,even for a moment . You can actually see a column of disturbed air rising from the scoop. I have always hated the amount of hot air which is trapped under our hoods once the car is parked . All the rubber and plastic items under the hood bake for quite a long time not to mention the motor itself. I know you work on your car and are very aware of how long you have to wait before you can get near to that block to work on it if you have been driving it at all. Short of opening your hood nothing else comes close to helping more in this area. I have also noticed that after being in bumper to bumper traffic for awhile , good old Los Angeles , the car gets back to its 180 degree operating temperature noticeably quicker .
As for a performance increase with regards to the DFIC what I need to do is make some runs with the scoop taped up and then some with it open . To date I have not done that . The scoop is still a new offering and I do not believe we even have it listed on the site as yet.
With all this being said I can assure you that we do not see this being a big seller and really only whent through with the project at the request of one of our customers. I would not have gone to this length other wise but now that I have I am glad that I did.


Randy
M7 Tuning

 

 

Can I get some of that? This is getting interesting…

 

new? you guys were extolling the virtues MONTHS ago. No testing. Ever?

 

i am very interested and curious to see the differences in temp between the dfic with a stock hood and the dfic with the exit scoop. it seems like it would be very effective and i would not hesitate to perform this mod (if it proves to be effective at all and if it performs better overall than the stock unit). please post some numbers and let us see how well this set up works

 

You'd spend untold thousands hacking your hood to pieces to install an overweight A2A (That couldn't out perform a W2A if it worked AMAZING, which it doesn't, I owned one). It heatsoaks in half a dyno run or one lap around the track. You could fry a steak on it after one dyno pull.

All that, but you wouldn't spend 1800-2000 on a water to air system that runs at 25 degrees above ambient after 20 laps on the track?

Riiight...

 

People keep posting that the DFIC heatsoaks after half a dyno run. I find this to be an interesting observation. Did these people not have air blowing over them and the hood closed??

Seriously, I didn't have any issues with heatsoak the two times that I've had my car on the dyno

 

The people that rustyboy hangs out with(links in his sig) would rather just pack the engine compartment with ice on the dyno, instead of using fans. The cooler at 7-11 must have been empty that day.
But they run the number, though.

 

I pulled 238whp on mine. I personally held a single fan over the GP intercooler on mine. No ice present thanks.

 

I do NOT use ice in tuning. I have gone around the US and people have seen first hand the numbers I get tuning cars. They watch us get "the NUMBER"

 

Jan tuned mine while he was in the US and I am in the UK and I made a peak of 235WHP with just a normal dyno fan in front of my car. Even back to back runs when heat built up I was still seeing 230WHP!! Stock exhaust and GP I/C

 

James... I am sure he thinks I air lifted ice to England...

my dyno days and dyno graphs are everywhere... THERE IS NO OTHER TUNER IN THE WORLD DOING THIS.... PERIOD