sent U a PM...thx a million..

 

hey what happened to that photo? i hit quote? hmm..



i've used these in air-cooled VW's, they suk that cheesy foam element deteriorates and runs down ur intake! there are better foam elements out there.

 

Are you sure about that? I'm not, because I haven't seen the data, and I suspect neither have you. Who's to say that at pulley'd SC draws more air than the Alta can deliver? Or the AGS can deliver? Maybe they both break down and the Pilo works better at higher boost conditions? I'm not able to say any of these things, but then again, no one is. Maybe on a stock car the Alta adds 7, but on a pulley'd car it only adds 3. Or 5. If the AGS or Pilo do the same 5, well, the Alta isn't better anymore, is it? There's no way to say that the ratios and delivered HP will remain consistant without testing it.

 

Randy Webb is testing the AGS on cars with different mods - says he sould have results within a week or so - and he's not charging for them.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=49562

 

There's a big difference...One: Randy's a vendor and he has a dyno. Two: We didn't "charge" for anything. We asked for donations to cover the dyno fees so we can do the work for YOU Even though they did not participate, we've sent WMS and M7 a complimentary copy of the data anyway.

 

I don't think Randy has a dyno. Fooz table, yes. Dyno, no. :smile:

http://store.webbmotorsports.com/ind...age=conditions

 

Ok...so I'm mistaken but he should

 

http://store.webbmotorsports.com/ind...in_page=page_4

there is one in that pic, but I suppose that could easily be another shop where he gets them done. At any rate, a fooz table is a close second.

 

I don't believe the CFMs will change depending on vacuum. Eventually every intake will become a bottle neck, yes.

 

This a very true and honorable thing you've done, Sid. For the record, I didn't contribute money because it was said that enough was in hand to run the test. If more was needed, I would have paid. I was confident, though, that Sid had no intentions of making money. Hence I did not think twice. To all whose money contributed, thank you too. . I will contribute dyno figures of my own as they come [read: not AGS, just in general...].

 

I do believe, though, that intake path length will affect the 'tune' for best flow. Maybe a shorter path breathes better in x situation, when a longer one works in y situation. Only data or modelling can say.

 

Yep, that photo is of the Dastek (Unichip) offices in the US. They have a dyno, but presumably no fooz.

 

Well it was a idea, but if thats the case then yea i would have to look for a different make air filter that was of better quality.

 

I love this thread for so many reasons

sure would like to see some graphs though

 

I doubt stock boost will test the flow capabilities of the stock system. Ahow me the data, and I'll believe you. Until then, you are as wrong and as right as I am, so stop arguing the point.

 

I'm not sure I agree ..... I'll give an example.... I know a mod that gave impressive 14 hp gains to an almost stock Mini. The same mod with a highly modded mini lost 4 hp. Just like mods don't stack............ We really don't know how it will react with a pullied car...... until you do it.

 

In the interest of science allow me to be the first to pledge $10 toward a followup test on the same dyno, on the same MINI (TIA JS) with a pulley. We'll need a few more participants next time around to bribe the participants into repeating all that work. Especially since I'm sure they'll want pizza and better beer next time.

I'm not in a huge rush, but it would go a long way toward answering some of the lingering questions. And if we could get this on the schedule, it would give us something to discuss for weeks to come.

 

SpiderX, U really seem to know how mods can have adverse reaction from car to car mod to mod. ushould post more often in those threads where people seem to be bitin' each others heads off w/out really knowin' all these facts, i've gone through stuff like this and it is great disapointment when U add a kool mod thinkin' it will kick **** and it ends up beign a nice piece of wall art to hang in ur garage and that gauge u thoght was accurately recording is just a bunch of neat lights.

U really have a serious collection go fast bitz', on ur ride would u say that b4 someone ventures out in this great world of modding should U upgrade ignition system from plugs to ground wires on this mini car or is it just for older cars that this would matter? i come from Vintage moddin' so not sure about this

 

In further discussions with JS, we think there were parts of the test that might've been flawed. For example, we're pretty sure the first run of the Pilo (the highest) was done without ECU reset, possibly benifiting from the stock learned history. Secondly, JS feels that while observing the last three runs of the AGS, he is not convinced that the operater ran the Mini to it's full redline. You guys only have the tip of iceberg. I just sent out what Chad provided me as to not hold you guys up. I would've prefer to wait to get the full information myself and provide that. Chad's swamped with DT work but said he would expidite...shoulda requested a copy myself while at they shop I'm pretty sure it has very detailed data of rpm and more importantly, time to rpm which would indicate which intake provided best throttle response.

We'll get those information out to you guys ASAP

 

here.

Matt

 

You give me too much credit but thank you. Most of what I have added I did at the advice of Randy Webb who probably has more practical experience than anyone. Hector at Rspeed has done alll the work and he is very fastidious and he has made suggestions. (I think in the Alanta area my car has the most mods.....everyone kicks my *** at the autox.) Then I started reading the posts from Eric, Chad, Ryan, Peter, Andy, JLM, El Diablito, Onasled, MSFITOY, on and on. Then I started spending money and doing dynos. It always blew me away when I would gain some but not near the amount expected....hence the no "stacking" phenomenom. What really hurts is when you lose power or torque after spending pretty decent change. Anyway, If you look at my posts you will see that I am/was not imune to my own "*****" parties. I will say that right now my car is running the strongest it ever has

What I have learned is that before you take advice from anyone ask if they have the mod on their car and have they dynoed it....what are the results? Do they own this or that suspension mod etc. or are you repeating someone elses opinion. Too many people give advice on stuff that they really don't know about don't own or maybe have never seen in person. There is a great group of knowledgeable guys on the site that really help..... (previously mentioned among others) It is true I have a fair amount of mods and if anyone wants my input I can tell you from my experience but the other guys are a better source of hard data/info.

Getting back to the thread....You have my $10 as well

 

Alta seems to be the best intake from the numbers...

I love my Alta cai and the sound is just addictive!

 

 

Just dump it all in an excel file, with overlayed dyno runs..... Then all the number crunchers can look at benefit vs RPM, area under the curve etc...

Matt

 

This was an excellent event; irrespective of what the numbers eventually mean the information shows how critical it is to be detail oriented when attempting to use dyno measurements to compare the performance of different products.

As mentioned, even with the efforts made, there were some anomalies (like Pilo 2).

Personally, having run GBMINI#2 on a dyno more than once and seeing how much (little!) care was taken by that dyno house - not the one doing this recent work - I must conclude that any "performance difference" less than 10 hp is as likely as not due to measurement variation.

On the other hand, with GBMINI#2 I paid $600 to get a claimed 10 hp (by upgrading the JCW upgrade). Was it worth it? Dollar per hp, absolutely not. But I got more out of it than just hp.

And in the end, there are no doubt happy M7 AGS owners - happy because of the "package gains", which may or may not be related to hp, noise, looks, etc, etc. You can't measure all those, because personal preference comes in to play.