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Help on 16/17/18 grip,ride,etc.

Tires, Wheels, & Brakes Discussion about wheels, tires, and brakes for the new MINI.
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Help on 16/17/18 grip,ride,etc.

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Old 05-30-2018, 10:27 AM
SD200
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Help on 16/17/18 grip,ride,etc.

I just bought a 2012 Clubman S and wanted any info on wheels tires.
It came with the R115 16" eight spoke wheel

I do intend to upgrade the brakes in the near future so first question is will Willwood/JCW brakes fit with my stock 16" wheels?

The next question is what is best for performance and ride quality? I see people who rave about their 15" wheels for ride and grip. To me that seems like having your cake and eating it too, better ride and grip!
So those are my criteria, ride and grip. But I do like the looks of many 17" wheels but will I sacrifice too much ride quality?
BTW the car has the stock runflats which are pretty grim but the wheels look like they are 18 lbs, not too bad. Is there a good 16" tire that will give me what I want?
Thanks,
 
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:53 PM
OCR
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SD200 -

There's a lot of 16" tires with good grip, all the way to DOT approved slicks.
Just take a look into some of the discount tire sites that sell a verity of tires. I just bought a set of 16", Dunlop tires that have very good traction.
Do your homework, you might be surprised.

Mike
 
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:18 PM
SD200
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Yes, I am aware of all the options in 16" but my question regards if the JCW/Wilwood big brakes will fit the 16" R118 eight spoke wheels, and after that are there advantages in having smaller wheels and more compliant tires as opposed to 17 or 18 wheels with comparable tires. If 16" can take the big brakes and I can get tires that offer good ride and grip that to me sounds like the way to go.
 
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:52 PM
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larger front brake calipers are always going to be hard to fit over any 16" wheels so you do have to be careful. You'd have to test fit or know an owner that has the exact wheels and brakes you want.

17" wheels are a better match for large brakes.

17" tire sizes are not that bad if you have OEM suspension and use 215/45-17. The exact model of tire you use is more important that the diameter of the wheel used. There are good street tires that are comfortable riding for street use in any wheel diameter from 15" to 18" although the difference between the extremes is something you can appreciate on the road, in any event it's livable.

Michelin Pilot Super Sport or Pilot Sport 4S is a good example of a tire that rides well though it comes in 17" sizes. However it is a Max Summer tire so no cold weather and it doesn't last as long since treadwear is 300, it's also not a budget tire.

I wouldn't say that 15" tires give that good grip or ride quality per se, again all depends on which tire. Many Max Summer tires don't come in 15" tire sizes for the MINI so you have to look at exact tire models to find the right match.

16" are fine and you can use various 205/55-16 or 225/50-16 tires for street use that will work OK.

Not sure why you are looking for larger brakes since you have a clubman S even if JCW.

I suppose you can check for your model year JCW clubmans with JCW front brakes which wheels they came with and if none in 16" then it might not fit.

If you can find another owner with JCW brakes in your year you can try a wheel fitment check with your current wheel. Either there is room or not.

I race with an R53 MCS with 200 whp and only use stock brakes. Used various brake pads and upgraded brake fluid over the years. Slotted or solid rotors and no brake fade but I don't do long track sessions. 15 min track wasn't a problem. Better higher heat tolerant brake pads do help. I do use very light weight wheels and it takes less brake power to stop light wheels.
 
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:02 AM
SD200
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Hi Minihune,
Thanks for the info,
This is my second "new mini" the first being a 2006 cooper S supercharged model. The reason I asked about the brakes on my new 2012 is that I had what I thought average brakes on my 2006, even with a switch to some EBC pads. Does my newer 2012 have upgraded brakes compared to my 2006?

I have not had a chance to hammer the new mini yet so I was going on past experience as far as brake upgrades.
So this gives me some other choices now if the brakes are adequate.

I do want to ask about the aspect ratio. say you had two good quality tires like the Michelins. One on a 17 with a 215/45 (96.75AR) and the other a 16 on a 205/55(112.75AR).
Would you say the extra 16mm of "cush" on the 205 is a big difference in ride quality or not huge? Also do you have any recommendations on a good street tire, maybe a bit less aggressive than the pilot sports? Not driving it in winter as I have a "beater" but long road trips on secondary roads etc.

Also if I go with 17's what about light weight wheels? I like the NM one but it seems there are many lightweight ones listed at tire rack etc.
And also since you know these new mini's what about suspension upgrades? My new mini has stock suspension and I would like to keep compliance for longer trips but a bit taughter when pushing.
Any experience with say, the Koni FSD dampers? I will not be hammering autocross cones but want it set up more like a touring road car. responsive but not harsh.

My brother plays music on the big island, need to plan a trip in Jan if the volcano stops spewing!
 
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Old 06-04-2018, 04:55 PM
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Yes, your 2012 has better brakes than your 2006. The R56 series uses the same brakes that were sold as the JCW upgrade for the R53. The only difference is on the R56 they aren't painted red!

I was pretty happy with good pads on my 2009 R55. (Now I drive an F55 and the factory brakes feel squishy and weak even when freshly bled. But they can still pull nearly 1G deceleration; I just have to press a lot harder to get it.)
 
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:49 PM
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Thanks bratling, I did do some 90 to 25mph stops today and the brakes seemed much better than I remember on my 06.

So can anyone chime in on a 17 wheel with a 215/45 (96.75AR) vs. a 16 on a 205/55(112.75AR)
does the bigger aspect ratio give a much better ride? or are they pretty close.

Thanks,
 
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  #8  
Old 06-05-2018, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SD200 View Post
Hi Minihune,
Thanks for the info,
This is my second "new mini" the first being a 2006 cooper S supercharged model. The reason I asked about the brakes on my new 2012 is that I had what I thought average brakes on my 2006, even with a switch to some EBC pads. Does my newer 2012 have upgraded brakes compared to my 2006?

I have not had a chance to hammer the new mini yet so I was going on past experience as far as brake upgrades.
So this gives me some other choices now if the brakes are adequate.

I do want to ask about the aspect ratio. say you had two good quality tires like the Michelins. One on a 17 with a 215/45 (96.75AR) and the other a 16 on a 205/55(112.75AR).
Would you say the extra 16mm of "cush" on the 205 is a big difference in ride quality or not huge? Also do you have any recommendations on a good street tire, maybe a bit less aggressive than the pilot sports? Not driving it in winter as I have a "beater" but long road trips on secondary roads etc.

Also if I go with 17's what about light weight wheels? I like the NM one but it seems there are many lightweight ones listed at tire rack etc.
And also since you know these new mini's what about suspension upgrades? My new mini has stock suspension and I would like to keep compliance for longer trips but a bit taughter when pushing.
Any experience with say, the Koni FSD dampers? I will not be hammering autocross cones but want it set up more like a touring road car. responsive but not harsh.

My brother plays music on the big island, need to plan a trip in Jan if the volcano stops spewing!
OK, newer MINIs are going to have pretty good brakes. R53 brakes were OK but better pads help.

Which Michelin tire model? Each is different with good and bad qualities which are more important that tire size alone.

If the same tire model comes in both 215/45-17 and 205/55-16 then the 45 series sidewall will ride more firmly but handle more responsively. If you have bad roads then the 55 series sidewall should work better for daily use.

I would say you need to consider your roads first then weather. If you have smooth roads, not too far to commute, don't drive in cold weather- then Max Summer tires are best for handling and some like Michelin Pilot Super Sport or Pilot Sport 4S are the best but cost more. They don't come in 16" sizes.

For 205/55-16 you can consider Ultra High Perf All Season tires-
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surve...=true&filter=y

For touring you want suspension and tires with some comfort, Koni FSD not a bad choice overall.

Realize that for track or autocross or any performance driving you want traits for tires and suspension that are not suited for daily driving and street use. No one tire or suspension gives you everything, there is always some compromise.

Light weight wheels are always a good thing for braking, accelerating, handling but cost more and may not do as well with rough roads and pot holes.

OEM wheels are heavy for more durability for bad roads but still can be damaged. More weight in wheel and tire requires more energy to stop and move from stop or a given speed. In general it's easier to find less weight in 16" wheels than in 17". 7" width is OK for the MINI. No advantage to going wider, just adds more cost and weight.

Biggest upgrade for the MINI is always tires. Pick the tire that suits your needs first then look at the tire sizes it comes in that works with the MINI. Then build the wheels and suspension to match the tire size.
 
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:50 AM
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Thanks MInihune,
That is all good advice. My biggest issue now is that the mini has the OEM runflats which are pretty grim IMO. The biggest difference I made in my 06 was to ditch those and get some good "regular tires" (I thi9nk they were khumo's)
So my thinking at this point is I will probably go with some 17" wheels and then a higher end non runflat tire. At that point I will always have the option of buying another set of tires for my 16" wheels to compare to.

I would think that a set of 215/45's on 17" are going to ride better than my concrete runflats.

I am looking at the Advanti storm wheel which is 14lbs and inexpensive at $184.00 per wheel. The offset is 40mm. I am sure offset has been discussed to death but can anyone tell me what stock offset is and if there is any benefit in terms of handling to go with more or less offset?

Since this will be a street car with perhaps a track day or autocross here or there I think that I am opting for compliance and ride quality as even a stock mini driven near it's limits is going to be going too quick for road use in most cases.
Thanks for all the info.
 
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:21 PM
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Your current wheels are OEM 16x6.5" et48. Compared to 17x7" et40 you will be 1.7mm further from the inner suspension and poke out 14.4mm more which is fine. There is also a possible 17x7" et35 size but that would make the poke 19.4mm.

215/45-17 are fine on OEM wheels and suspension. Non runflats will ride much better- which tire were you thinking of? Tire selection for some of the current great street tires favors 17" sizes over 16" except for Grand Touring All Season tires.

Were you thinking Summer or All season tires? Any cold weather or snow?

Wheel offset does not change handling or performance much, just position of the wheel and how much pokes out. Depending on tire size and wheel width wider than OEM there can be rubbing issues if you get too aggressive. Tire diameter should be about 24.3" or slightly less.

If you are looking mostly for street use and very rarely track or autocross it is possible to consider Michelin Pilot Super Sport or Pilot Sport 4S but it costs more. Treadwear 300. All Season tires are great for longer treadwear, dry or wet use, more comfort, but not so good for any track use (just not enough grip).
 
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:38 AM
SD200
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Hi Minihune,
I can't help but smile when someone from the islands asks if there is any cold weather or snow, it reminds me of when my brother ( 35 years on Hawaii) was over here and it was about 45 degrees out and he thought he was going hypothermic! But since you ask yes, I am in Indiana and we get cold and some snow but I do have a second beater car to use in those cases.

So am thinking about the Michelin pilot SS tires in 215/45-17 size. But I have to ask that if these have good grip in the summer do they lose there grip in the cold? I would think that if they had superior grip in summer temps they would still have good grip when it's cold. My dunlop 803 GP on my KTM 300 works great in all conditions, (off road) it is super gummy but still works great in even freezing temps.

Again, thanks for all the help and the increased learning curve.
 
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:49 AM
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If you drive when temperature is less than 40 then any Summer tire is not going to have grip. If that is the case then Ultra High Perf All Season tire like Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ $148 each.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...S3PL&tab=Specs

If you use another car when it is cold and only drive in temperatures above 40 then Pilot Super Sport or 4S is fine.

Although I grew up in Hawaii and live there now, I lived on the mainland for 12 years including 4 years in Colorado and 5 years in Chicago through the winters and shoving snow.
 
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:31 AM
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So, after a few weeks of owning my current mini clubman I did my first mod which was to ditch the bridgestone run flat tires and get a set of 205/55 Michelin AS3+ tires. The mini had 16" rims so I figured I would go with just good tires since the 16's I have are fairly light (18lbs) and see what the difference is.
All I can say is this is not night and day but earth to mars as far as a difference.On my way to the tire store to have my tires mounted (got em from tire rack) I had a route that took me over three railroad track crossings and a few nice 2nd gear turns that you can see for any oncoming traffic. On the way there every RR crossing was a very harsh hit and one corner has a good bump in the apex that causes the car to jump off line. On the way back the RR crossing bumps were gone, just a bit of noise but no jarring or harshness. In the apex with the bump, no jumping off line and the grip was much better.
I think that some people confuse steering wheel response with grip and compliance. Yes, the runflats, with their stiff sidewalls had better initial turn in and response but the Michelins had much more grip and no doubt follow the road much better and keep the car on line. Much less pucker in higher speed turns and way better feed back to the driver.
Thanks for the advice, minihune.
So on to the next mod. My clubbie has stock suspension which I am going to keep and probably go with a set of Koni FSD's or the newer Koni. SInce I am setting this car up for touring and not track or autocross I want compliance and comfort over that last bit of grip. I have to say if you push the Michelins hard you are probably going too fast for street driving anyway. They have LOTS more grip!
But, maybe I will try some 17's with 245's and see how they work in the future but for now I am really happy.
After that perhaps a stage 1 tune but if I really want to go for full G loading I just go out to newcastle motorsports park and rent a kart for a few sessions. You have NEVER seen grip until you have been in a kart on a real kart circuit!
 
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:12 PM
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SD200, I did the exact same thing to my 17 MCS convertible, replaced the Pirelli runflats on 16" loop spoke wheels w/ Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ at 14k miles. A big difference in handling for sure. At 25k miles I installed a set of ST coilovers and NM GT 25mm rear sway bar. That was night/day for improved handling handling. Now its truly a go kart. But the ride is a little firmer/sharper w/ more road noise. Objectionable? No, but noticeable none the less. At the next tire change I'm going to 17" wheels w/ 205/45/17 Michelin Pilot Super Sports. A tune of some sort may be in my future too.

IMHO, there is no such thing as climbing the performance handling curve w/o giving up something, namely ride quality. The high you go, the greater the impact on ride. So proceed cautiously and carefully, especially if others more sensitive than you to a car's ride are involved. :-)

Enjoy your new Clubman.
 
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