i am thinking of getting new breaks for the front only..i have after market 17" rims with offset of 40. and 1" lip. which ones will work and which is the best buy for the money... my track time maybe 2 times ayear but i do drive hard.
thanks for you input...

 

What is your budget? Why do you need the big brakes for events done two times yearly?
Do you want it for the looks or the performance or both?

Usually it is good to think about the entire brake system and how to balance it. Leaving the rear brakes stock and modding the fronts only might upset brake bias and not be the best for braking power.

There are plenty of big brake kits out there and some will require spacers of 5mm to 10mm for 17" wheels to fit. Some are less. Each wheel is different so some won't fit as easily.

Try contacting NAM sponsors RLMINI and TCE brakes to see what options there are and what prices you can get for a brake upgrade for front and back that would fit your 17" wheels. That probably would give you the most performance for a reasonable price and still fit with minimal fuss.

 

RLMini's and TCE's kits have the most clearance. They're the only ones I'm aware of that don't mess up the brake bias (by "mess up" I mean push the bias too far forward). They also use pads that are readily available (read: inexpensive), and in many compounds.

RL's kit uses a thicker rotor than TCE's kit, or anyone for that matter, which equates to a bit of shoehorning on installation, but better fade resistance for enduro or superspeedway applications.

The other kits: Tar:Ox, AP, Brembo, Stoptech, all seem to need big spacers and/or exceptionally accomidating wheel spoke shapes. They're also more expensive, and to boot all but the AP use big piston area calipers that hose the brake bias too far forward (leading to a car that doesn't turn under braking)

 

"RL's kit uses a thicker rotor than TCE's kit"

This is dependent upon the particular kit selected.

The Wilwood factory kits are both .810
TCE Street kit is also .810
TCE Race kit is 1.10

For those new to the BBK options for the MINI:

The issues for wheel fit comes down to the combo of rotor width, caliper body width and pad width. It's the mixing and matching of various parts here which produce different fits by different builders. Each has its advantages and disadvantaged depending upon how you view the final product.

Of course as product size behind the wheel INCREASES, the net wheel clearance DECREASES. Hence the difficulty of comparing kits, but the benefit of being able to hopefully find something which fills the need.

 

there is also stock sized aluminium 4 pot calipers at minisport.com. kinda pricey though.

 

Brembo also has a smaller (Junior) and GT kit I believe.

You also have to think about Winter driving and if you are actually located in an area that sees snow and salt on the street. If that is the case I would go with a sealed caliper which most of the aftermarket kits unfortunately do not have. I believe AP, Stoptech and Brembo are the only ones that have the dust boots.

Alex

 

The Wilwood factory kit sold by TCE also has a booted caliper.

 

FYI: the Wilwood Factory Street kit is booted. The Wilwood Factory Race kit is not- it has SS pistons as do my larger kits.

I compiled a LOT of this into an excel sheet that a few here have seen. You'd be surprised what the info there shows. In truth there are many more kits if you really list them out. I listed as many specs as I had info for and the best guess on certain stats such as difficulty, wheel fit, price, etc.

If you would like a copy, let me know. And if you care to contribute to the sheet via offering up more info that'd be great.

 

TCE can match rotor appearance of the rear brakes to match Brembo fronts,
compare this

Brembo front brake with red caliper and plated rotor to


TCE rear brake kit using stock caliper (can be painted red)
Rotor can be plated and slotted or drilled to match front (approx).
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=28061
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=28221

I could not find a good picture of the B3 brake rear rotor/caliper but it is like the Wilwood kit.

 

thats sick


chris

 

After this I don't think you will have any doubts...

 

Can someone comment on the Brembo kit?

How does it fit with stock S-Lites? How thick does the spacer need to be?
I heard that with a 5mm spacer the S-Lite will clear.

Todd,

does Wilwood make any calipers with boots that will fit on the bigger brake kits? I am still not giving up on the idea of making my own kit with the Porsche Boxster caliper. I found a disk that would work well.

Alex

 

Alex,

I'll try to answer your question as best I can, follow along.

Their 'Factory' kits use the DynaPro caliper. It will max out at about 12.5" maybe so the common rotor used is the 12.2. It's a very common size and 'off the shelf'. This caliper will not fit larger 13" rotors as the body will contact the rotor prior to the pad sitting flush on the radius- i.e. pad overhang. Lots of it.

They do offer two other 'booted' caliper options. First is the quite popular Billet Superlite Six Radial mount. This is the same as the Vette kit and others. Great, low clearance caliper. Maybe not the very best of all out racing calipers but that's not it's target market either. However it's my personal opinion that this caliper simply has way too much piston area for our application here. On a 11" rotor it might be fine, but on a 13' the car will be very 'nose heavy'. For this reason I do not choose to use it.

They also offer a four piston, same body version of the six above. This one is more in line with what I like to see on the MIIN. Piston area is down to work better with the larger rotor. Remember; BBK= Larger rotor, smaller piston area, tune with pad. This is a fine caliper for the requirement in my mind, just that it (like the six above) really raise the price of the kits. The 'ballpark' cost of doing this package for you would be more in line with the other kits on the market; $1400-1700. I'd have to really run some numbers too finalize it if you like.

The reason I don't push this part is based on 1) the cost, 2) the value of it for heavy track use given its narrow pads (in fact the same as most other kits), 3) the market position of it compared to others.

I can do it, just not sure I see a long term market for it.

Now before I sign out here, I want to make a comment on the 'booted piston' caliper. The boots on many booted ones are burned off very quickly in open track use. They do have some value in heavy salt belt regions of the country where folks don't keep their cars clean. Dirt? Don't even go there- I know more about dirt and rocks in one race on my Pikes Peak car than you would pull out of a MINI in a year! In selling hundreds of kits the past 11 years very, very few have been booted. Only a couple of year round users have complained of problems after a few years of service. They chose the cost effective method of new calipers for their needs. New? Yes it may seem odd to some, but replacing the Forged Superlite will set you back about $139ea, or less than $300 in three years time if you neglect them. I suspect this pales in comparrison to the tire bill for the same time....Do I suggest that you need to replace them in three years? No way, it's just not a common thing. But the return on performance for the cost is pretty decent if it were needed.

Bottom line- trade offs. Always has been and always will be. Fat, narrow, big, small, boots, ss, holes, slots, space, fit, pads, cost, etc. etc. EVERYONE of your choices has some negative value to it. I do however feel I've offered the best compromise of this for the car if I may say so. The excel sheet bears it out.

 

Todd,

that 4 piston booted caliper looks good. At 1400$ it would still be cheaper as the AP kit and at approx 1600$ it would be the same.
Will the caliper fit the 1.1" rotor?
You kits come with the spacer required to fit the BBK with S-Lites?
On which caliper did you see the boot burn off? Just want to make sure that if I spent the money that I get a quality caliper.

Thanks,
Alex

 

Alex,

I cannot speak first hand of the boot burning on either of the Wilwood calipers. This has been a common complaint of those on other brands when put to the task of extended track use. There's a reason that the racing calipers do not come with boots- and this is it. Even the DP calipers on the smaller WW kit are (as stated up a few posts) Stainless Steel and WITHOUT boots. Does this mean that you really need to concern yourself with this issue? I'd say not really. Just as I've stated my postion on their real value, I can also say that unless you plan to turn this into an all out race car you're not likely to encounter significant issues of boot burning unless you opt for the more aggressive pads and very high temps.

On a kit such as the booted four pot above (a custom build as I do not stock the parts for this- it's not my common offering) the clearance to the spokes of a wheel will be aprox 1.125 or 28.5mm.

To compare, this is 2mm GREATER than the basic FSL/.810 rotor kit I offer. That means that while my narrow kit requires the supplied .065" spacer to clear the R90 wheel (tested and confirmed) you'd need another at least a second plate or total spacer of about .150" to clear THAT wheel. With air gap I'd say the R90 would need about a 1/4" spacer.

What you are asking for/about falls pretty much smack in the middle of both of my standard kits- the narrower .81 and wider 1.10 kits with the FSL caliper.

How do you know what spacers you'll require? Take off the wheel, place a flat edge on the inner hub face and measure down from the flat edge to the spoke of the wheel. On a 13" rotor you'll need this clearance at a radius of about 4 up to 6" from centerline. Don't have that much room? Check what you DO have and run the math. You'll know what spacer requirements you'll need. Add about .100" for an air gap.

 

this is great now i just have to save so money to make my mind up....

thanks for all the info , i still need to see how much clearnce there is in my rimes.....
flashback,& minihune i dig your setups....
do you have any problems with it? since the back only the rooter is changed and i assume that the pads as well. can you tell me how much?
thanks...

 

I just wanted to point our that both my kits (for 16" or 17" wheels) use a thicker rotor. The 16" kit uses 32mm thick rotor (1.26") and the the 17" kit uses a 30mm thick directional vane rotor. (1.18"). I locate everthing as far inboard as possible to allow for wheel clearance. Either kit can be used behind R 90's with no spacers at all. The 16" kit fits behind the 17" S light with 8.5mm spacers. The thicker rotors help manage tons of heat while resisting warping. Two peice rotors are more likely to warp because of the diffferent expansion rates of aluminum and iron. A really trick set-up is the two piece floating rotor that is designed to eliminate the warping, but they are very expensive.

 

In the front and rear I have zimmerman cross drilled rotors (OEM sized and about $50-70 each pair), initially I added Mintex Redbox pads front and back (cuts down on brake dust and a good street pad), upgraded to stainless steel brake lines from Helix13.com and ATE superblue brake fluid.

In my case I did not go with a big brake kit, more of a stage 1 brake upgrade. calipers are the stock ones but I did later paint them. Autocross and track were hard on the Mintex Redbox pads so I changed them to Mintex M1144 track pads and those wear faster and create more dust but not as bad as stock and performance is good on the track.

For Rotors although the cross drilled rotors do look nice they are prone to micro cracks with heat cycles and hard use. For street use they might be OK but for heavy track use I'd recommend Powerslot rotors or similar slotted or plain rotors. Some autocross classes do not allow upgrading rotor size beyond OEM diameter so read the rules.

If you go with a big brake kit you'd have to think about upgrading the rear brakes-could be larger rotor/ standard caliper, upgraded pads.

Right now I don't have any problems with my brakes. I do autocross with stock 15x5.5" rims which won't work with any big brake kit.

 

I am just finishing the rear brake upgrade which uses a larger diameter rotor with the stock caliper. the rear rotors will be available in all the same configurations and colors as the front rotors, so anyone who already has a B3 kit will have matching rear rotors. So far most of my kits have been for racers with just a couple of kits going to street only cars. The racers haven't seen any real need to change the rear except that 13" rotors make the stock rears look extra tiny! Many of my customers already had the "stage 1" set up and loved the noticable stopping power. Two customers have mentioned that the upgrade avoided accidents that they feel would have not been avoided with stock brakes.

 

RLmini installed a set of 16" B3 brakes on my 03 MCS over Labor day
weekend. The brakes work normally until I have a need to slow down real fast and then it seems like I hit a brick wall, because they stop so well.
The stopping power is like a dog that is chasing someone and comes to
the end of its chin and is suddenly jerked back. The brakes stop
that well. We used Hawk pads which produce very little dust so I do
not have clean my white wheels as often. I am very impressed and amazed
with the brakes.
Thanks, Mark.