I recently installed FSD's, IE adjustable street/track camber plates and TSW springs. I have the front camber set as close to -1.5° on both sides as possible; -1.4° driver's side, -1.3° passenger's side. Now, I haven't taken things apart again to see exactly how much either the top spring hats or the spring coils are hitting, but when I turn, things creak and groan.

Before I take the front suspension apart, again, I would like to see any photos of the inner fender well 'rib' flattening that you (or anyone) have done - both sides - to improve clearance for the additional camber. I realize that I can dial-in less camber, but that was not the intent of installing camber plates.

I'd also like to know how much negative camber you've been able to achieve without the suspension rubbing and what suspension setup you're using, so I have a point of reference.

Thanks!

 

Adam
I'm also interested in this same situation as well. I have been trying to decide on adjustable camber plates or fixed. I have a GP and cannot see myself ever wanting to lower the car anymore than it already is. So that means that coilovers and 2.5" springs are out of the equation. So if I stick with the JCW springs and struts (which I really like) I would like to know how much camber can be had in the front before taking a hammer to the ribs. I only have ribs on the inner strut tower on the drivers side, the passenger side should have more room. If I can't get at least -1.7 on the front camber without using a hammer than I may as well go with I.E. fixed 1.25 plates. Steve

 

My '03 Cooper with JCW suspension and Helix camber plates gets -2.0° of camber on both sides up front with no hammering. I could even go a little further. I don't know if the strut towers changed from '03 to '06, so I don't know if the same would be true on a GP.

Some of the creaking could be from the strut bearings / mounts up top, nothing to do with anything rubbing.

 

antiquecarnut, i'm getting that exact set-up in two weeks. what are your impressions driving it? i've only heard from one other person with this set-up (he loved it) but would like to hear other's opinions. it seems to me like the way to go for street. thanks.

 

I agree - the creaking could be coming from the spherical bearings. My 1st gen Ireland street/race plates creaked a bit at first when turning into parkinng spots going slow. I installed them when it was cold out (cold in Texas being relative, around 32*F). I hit the spherical bearings with a bit of Breakfree CLP, let it soak in overnight and they never did it again. It doesn't take much... To date, some 1.5 years later and they're totally silent.

On the subject of clearancing - almost all mid '05's and later that I have come across require clearancing depending on the camber desired and the suspension setup. Depending on the desired camber setting and suspension, more or less clearancing is required. On coilovers with narrow springs, not much is required (if any) to achieve more than -2.0. On any OEM-style spring, including ours, not much clearancing is required for 1.25* plates, and more is required for adjustables.

On my '03 with our TSW/Leda Softcore suspension and the Ireland plates, I can get -3 quite easily with no interference at all - but then again, there are NO ribs! On our other tester car, an MCS with our TSW/Leda Hardcore suspension, you can get sick negative camber if you wish around -4.0.

Here's some BIG pics of recent clearance performed on a '06 car with our springs and Ireland fixed camber plates:

Passenger side:

Marking the passenger side interference:



Before clearancing:



After clearancing:



It didn't take much on the passenger side - maybe 1/8" or so of gentle massaging. One the passenger side, it's pretty easy to mark where you think things are going to make contact, as shown above. When you work that area, it doesn't take much!

Driver's side:

Before:



After - sorry about the photo angle, it appears not much has been done but it has:



After:



The driver's side takes a bit more persuasion. Those ribs are persnickity. I found a round body dolly and body hammer work the best for flattening the ribs out a bit. Then, you can go back and shape the metal a bit more. On this side, I'd say it was about 3/16", which provided a finger-width gap between the inboard side of the strut tower and the spring.

It really doesn't take much effort to clearance the towers, so go easy... You really don't need to make that big a dish.

While you have the struts out, it's not necessarily "easy" to slip them back in for a test fit but I recommend it. Slide the bottom the strut in, align the top and secure with a nut or two, and then check the clearance. It's a good idea to have someone turn the wheel while you're checking the clearance, too.

Narrow diameter springs, like those used on many coilovers, obviously provide for more camber adjustment range.

 

Steve:
I had Hsport spirngs and stock shocks before. I didn't care for the ride quality, handling. The ride height was too low - and in New England the car would be a snowplow - that's if it ever snows again .

Take a look at these two photos and note the positions of the adjustment and the strut nut relative to the center of the shock tower hole.

Passenger's side:


Driver's side:


To get the same camber setting on both sides, the relative position of the strut nut will likely be different from side to side. So, with a -1.25° fixed plate, the camber may not be the same on both sides - am I making sense, here?

So far, so good. It's a bit tough for me to judge completely, as a few days after I installed the new goodies, I mounted snow tires on 15" holies (which I am tempted to remove, since there ain't no snow here - heck it's almost midnight, January 4th and it's 51° out... sorry for the digression ). The ride is dramatically improved over stock and light years ahead of the Hsport+stock shock combo, which was awful, IMO (other people claim to like the Hsports and stock shocks, though).

I also have a RSpeed RSB set on the middle setting and HSport adjustable lower rear control arms, set to -0.5° camber.

Scott - we spoke about this. I think it's the spring sliding against the rubber pad on the spring perch as it pushes against the inner fender well. It sounds just like a door opening in an horror movie .

Those photos are very helpful - thanks!

To give you an idea - this is the passenger's side. You can see that the spring is right up against the inner fender well - and that's with the steering wheel straight. I didn't take a photo of the driver's side. Sorry about the dirt in the fender well - it did snow a bit one day and the plow folks went nuts with the salt and sand, trying to make overtime pay during the holiday weekend.

 

Adam
I'm well aware that their may be a difference from side to side using fixed plates and that is why I am considering the adjustables. I also feel that because I'm pretty particular in what I do that during an alignment I would like to be sitting in the drivers seat with a half a tank full of gas. I think that these weights in the car will also make a difference in your alignment specs. I believe that is why MINI alignment specs include a spring height setting before the alignment takes place. They do this by adding weight to the car. I believe that what they are trying to accomplish is a consistency from one alignment to the next. However their method is fairly generic as it does not take into consideration the real weight of the driver but they do the best they can. I am not saying that dealerships will provide you with the best alignment, as I'm sure high performance shops will probably do better. For me I don't mind paying a little more to have a GOOD tech work with me.
Steve


[quote=AntiqueCarNut;1302527]Steve:
I had Hsport spirngs and stock shocks before. I didn't care for the ride quality, handling. The ride height was too low - and in New England the car would be a snowplow - that's if it ever snows again .

Take a look at these two photos and note the positions of the adjustment and the strut nut relative to the center of the shock tower hole.

Passenger's side:


Driver's side:


To get the same camber setting on both sides, the relative position of the strut nut will likely be different from side to side. So, with a -1.25° fixed plate, the camber may not be the same on both sides - am I making sense, here?

 

Just a little tappy tappy will clear that up!

 

Perfect sense (and i'm glad you pointed this out, most people think they should appear the same from the top), my alignment position looks just like yours. with the IE adjustable plates I am running -2.0 in the front and -1.5 in the rear.

 

Curv872
How much if any did you have to massage the inner strut towers to get those alignment specs. Thanks Steve

 

None, you should be safe if you don't go more then -2.0 degrees.

 

I also have the ie adjustable. -2* in front -1* back. No rubbing.

 

Curv872
Thanks for the info. When I picked up my car it was out of alignment so I had the dealer realign it. Currently with the stock JCW suspention I have -0*47" L, -0*46" R. with the car weighted. Right now I can slide a finger between the springs and the inside of the strut tower, so approxamately a little less than 1" of clearance with the wheels straight. I am shooting for -2* so I've got -1*15" to go. I'm hoping that you are correct and I can forgo the BFH.
Steve

 

Even at -1° the springs rub on my car. Taking it in to have the adjustments done on a lift, this week. No more suspension work in my driveway.

What year is your MINI?

 

It is an 03/03 mcs.

There was a slight rub after I mushroomed one tower, but after fixing that and doing the alignment no problems. If you are having trouble getting the spec you want, pull out the strut and give a few love taps where the spring rubs the sheet metal.

 

The way I understand it, some of the '05's and all of the 06's have the clearance issues with camber plates. I am set to go to my mechanic on Friday to take the struts out and to make the necessary clearance adjustments.

 

After further inspection it appears that the spring does in fact rub on the drivers side. So it looks like a little BFH is necessary on the drivers side.
The rubbing occurs when your are turning right.

 

Now that's a picture of Jango I've never seen! (unless you did an install of another PW '06 MCS w/ TSW springs and IE fixed plates in Dec '06).

The final front camber settings came out to -1.7 (front right) and -1.9 (front left) with no rubbing at all that I have heard.



It's like stumbling across

 

Well, we took the front suspension apart last weekend. Both front springs were definitely rubbing at the tops of the inner fender wells. Added some clearance with a really BFH and things ar emuch happier now. I will post before/after photos when I get a chance.

Also, since there were no directions with the TSW springs, I didn't trim the front bump stops, initially. We took the springs off and did a bump-ectomy the lower half of the front bump stops - and the car ride sooooo much better now.

 

i just got my TSW springs installed along with the IE fixed camber plates and new FSD's yesterday. (thanks scott & matt at CCC) my mini is an early '03 and it had two ridges on the driver side, but only one on the passenger side, which didn't run all the way to the top. that side had to be "adjusted" along the wall itself, but no big problem. i'm sorry i didn't get any photos, but it's pretty self-explanitory once you get in there. both front & rear bumpstops got trimmed about 3/4 of an inch, you can see where to cut when you're there as well, right along a transition, and it's real easy with an exacto knife. after the new alignment, the car feels pretty light on it's feet and requires less effort in the turns. i'm looking forward to spending some time with it the next few weeks.