Probably a stupid question, as I haven't gotten under there to look just yet, but is there a center site available to jack the entire rear end up before you put the car on the jack stands? Also, where is the best place for the stands to be positioned and how do you tighten all the anti sway bar bolts (all bolts removed with this modification) with full weight on the rear wheels? Do you put the wheels back on and then lower them onto the flat part of ramps? You would need to be paper thin to get under there without the back raised up some. With full weight on the wheels can you get to all the bolts that need torquing?

Thanks

 

... I personally believe that the whole 'torque the swaybar bolts when full weight is on the suspension' thing is baloney. It makes no sence to me being that the load on a swaybay is no different with the car on jack stands or sitting on the ground.

Just my opinion ....

 

i agree about the sway bar links, since normal use loads them both ways and proper setup is to have them unloaded at normal ride attitude.. It is generally a good idea for all the other suspension components however.

 

To answer your question, there isn't a good "rear center" jacking point. It's best to do one side then the other.

ripley

 

If you want to tighten your bolts while loaded, use rhino ramps:smile:

 

Ask any road race shop technician - with experience - they'll final torque the sway with the full weight of the car on all four wheels. This removes the potential for any misalignment or binding. The same is true for re-assemling any moving suspension components - control arms, toe control links etc. And here, it is not "in general a good idea", it is a must for proper suspension operation. You can also search the web for this information, there is plenty of it out there.

But, it's your car...if you want to follow this advise just back it up onto a set of ramps. I do this all the time. You may have to jack one side at a time to get the old bar out and the new one in place. Adjustable bars that come with adjustable end links can be adjusted with or without pre-load. Adding pre-load is one way of cheating the size of the bar but this also requires - depending on the car - moving the bar pick-up points.
For other cars, it's just a matter of adjusting one endlink shorter than the other. When I say cheating, I mean changing cross weight for turning faster in one direction.

I will be honest with you guys, I cannot back up this information with physics. jlm, you are perhaps in a better position to argue this point. However, I was taught to install sway bars in this fashion by some very well known folks in racing...a few who still road race competetively on TV today. The fact that I cannot remember the fundamental reasoning doesn't make the information wrong. I would say that it is just as important to get the endlinks as vertical as possible and to make sure the bar ends are parallel with the road.

Baloney should only be used with mustard and whole wheat bread, not cars.

Michael

 

when I have corner weighted my own car, i do it with the sway bar links disconnected on one side. After setting the coilovers, the adjustable link is adjusted so it bolts in without adding any pre-load. this has to be done in the normally loaded position.


I'll happily defer to Mebs' comments

 

oban - (love your name btw, oban means middle-aged woman in
Japanese hehe )

Are you just trying to torque the swaybar endlinks or the brackets
..or the entire sub-frame?

As mentioned above, the car doesn't need to have vehicle load
for tightening the endlinks. Its a good practice to have vehicle
load while you torque down other suspension bolts/nuts like
the strut mount bolts, etc.

 

I can illustrate one of the reasons behind performing the final torque settings for sway bars while the suspension is fully loaded in this scenario; imagine placing a car on a lift. We all know from this experience that the suspension takes a few minutes to fall to full droop or unload. Lets suppose that one side, for whatever reason (and I'll point one out below) droops or unloads less than the other. If all of the components are torqued in this scenario, there is potential for binding and therefore the potential for some preload in a bushing that deforms as the car is set back on all four wheels. Imagine what would happen to your corner weighting results if you did not disconnect the endlinks in this scenario...

Suspension components:

Control arms, for example, must be torqued with the full weight of the car on all four wheels. More appropriately, we are concerned with the correct ride height here and not weight. If a control arm is torqued while in full droop, the bushing(s) will bind when the car is lowered; when a car is placed on a lift, the suspension will unload to a point. If you loosen the lower control arm bolts for example, the suspension will unload completely. The bushings, bolts/nuts in his example resisted - against the force of the spring and damper - unloading because they were torqued while the car was sitting at its correct ride height. This resistance works in reverse too; if these components are torqued while the suspension is completely unloaded, they will bind when the suspension becomes loaded. This condition will not allow these components, nor the spring and damper, to work freely as they were designed. Bushings may actually tear.

Methodology, consistency, and repeatability. jlm spoke about removing one swaybar endlink per side while having his car corner weighted - perfect! But, imagine going thru the above corner weighting process with poor results. How, you ask? Perhaps you found that the resistence in a control arm bushing that was torqued while the suspension was cmpletely unloaded, caused an error in the scale readings because it RESISTED unloading. It pushed down in a way like a wound up a rubber band. And remember, this is not a negligible force. A properly torqued control arm will resist the action of the spring and damper. This will, and unfortunately, does happen. Try chasing that one down without the benefit of this reply! If we are concerned with fine tuning, then let it begin with how we put things together. If we don't concern ourselves with how we put things together, the fine tuning won't amount to a hill of beans.

You know, I don't know squat about intercoolers and many other engine aspects. Why, because I've been farting around with suspension systems for about 25 years. I refuse to believe that any of us is stupid, we simply cannot focus on everything. But when you do want to know how something works, take it apart and study it...quite revealing really. I gotta go install my super duper intercooler so I can make another 100whp.

 

yeh, I know, but I don't think he's corner balancing his car... he just wants
to put his swaybar apart and put it back together. It's easier to do
while the car's in the air unless you have adjustable endlinks.

 

Thanks for all the replies. What I plan to do is really just switch the old sway bar for a new, larger one. To do this the instructions mandate removing many bolts, some for the bar itself, some for the struts, some for the end links (will change those for insurance against bending only) and then those involved with the subframe. I think it would be pretty easy to get to some of the bolts with the car resting on the wheels, others it appears will be tucked behind a bunch of stuff. So, what I was asking was is it necessary to load the wheels to final torque ALL the bolts, and if so should these be just snugged while car wheels are unloaded and then fully tightened with weight on the wheels? Should they be left loose enough to allow for some movement before the final torquing? I have never done this before and don't know what it will look like under there until I get there and would like to know what I should do before I'm on my back, wrench in hand.

Also, if you use the frame jack points to jack the car up, how do you put the jack stands in that place? It would appear that this area is now being used for the jack? Is there more than one spot for this, or is the spot big enough for jack and the stand?

I didn't know Oban meant middle aged woman (yikes ), I was going for the single malt scotch variety .

 

To ge ther rear up, jack up one side and put it back down on just a rear stand. Then jack the other side and set it down on the other rear stand. Put the tangs of the stands into the factory jack points.

BTW, you don't have to remove the struts to get the rear bar out. You'll have to pry the subframe away from the car a little, but it will come out.

 

>It would appear that this area is now being used for the jack?


If you look closely underneath the car, you'll see a small metal rail that
runs vertically down the side of the car. It's about maybe 6inches
inward from the sides of the car. There's plastic (part of skirt? can't
remember) that covers it up, but you'll see the rail once you're down
there. You can even use your factory jack to raise it up a little to
get a quick glance. Don't stick your head completely under there
while on factory jack.

Anywhere down that rail you can raise the car up. Make sure your
hydraulic jack has a flat piece of wood or have rubber pads so
you don't indent the plastic. (not that it matters if you don't care
since you can't see it anyway when the car is on the ground).

 

You wont hurt the plastic you'll bend the metal behind it. A 12" 2x4 or similar board will distribute the weight and should prevent the bending