VERY happy with the handling of the MINI, but I just took off the OEM Run Flats and replaced them with 215/45/17 Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Once broken in, I know these new tires will have MUCH superior grip, but it is my wifes car, and she is really upset that the Super Sports do not have the "go cart" turn in she got from the original run flats.

I added a little extra air pressure, but no joy. I know the brand new deep soft tread has extra "squirm" right now.

SO, here I am guys. I *ONLY* need to improve the turn in. I'm wondering about poly bushings in the front (control arms only?). I'm wondering about front strut tower brace?

Her car came with the sport suspension and 17" wheels, but the All Season Run Flats. Crap tire, but she LOVED that razor sharp turn in she got from the rock hard sidewall. If you guys have any thought to share, you just might save my marriage! LOL!

 

depends on how new the tires are, could just need a bit of breaking in the get their full potential. New tires tend to be a little slippery while mold release agents and such get worn off. Just my 2 cents, i could be wrong.

 

I wondered about the same thing, they are responsible for the harsh ride over rough pavement but also the razor sharp turn in. Is there no middle ground?

 

I too noticed this and it is often never mentioned throughout the endless number of "dump the RFTs, they suck, etc" posts. I went from OEM 16" wheels and RFTs to 17" OZs and Michelin Pilot Sport AS+ and noticed not too much difference on my R56 so sidewall height and thickness and have a relation and can be swap-able.

If starting off with a 17" wheel like I did on my current R55, then you will see a difference in turn-in. I had stock OEM Bridgestone RFTs that had a treadware rating of 140, so these tires were hard and sticky. I put the previously mentioned Michelin All-Seasons on and was not happy at all. I sold the OZs and Michelins and plastidipped my stock wheels and got Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

Man these PSSs are sticky and do not make much of any noise when taken right to 10/10 like the stock tires did. They still have a hair but of lean or softer turn-in, but the grip makes up for it. I am running 38psi all around and might bump it up a hair when at the Dragon at the end of this month.

 

Bumping up for continued pounding on roads like the Dragon might not be a great idea. Your tires are going to get very hot and thus pressures will be going up. It might be worthwhile to underinflate like you're going to drive at the track.

 

Having no track experience at all except for being a spectator, this is news to me. I understand the tires will gain pressure as temps rise, but realistically how much? I was only thinking for stiffer sidewall feel. I did not help the issue either by going from a 205/45-17 to a 215/45-17, adding more footprint, but more sidewall too.

 

You are correct that brand new tires do indeed have a "release compound" still on them. This must wear off in order for the rubber of the tire to do its job. Think of it as the tire being coated in a thin layer of plastic (lol!). This is not what we are both feeling.

The combination of a sidewall that -will- flex (instead of being rock hard like the run flats), AND the super soft tread blocks being so tall because they are brand new giving a feeling of 'squirm', is what has taken away that feeling of razor sharp turn in the run flats gave.

I was thinking by going with polyurethane bushings, I would be taking away some of the flex from a different location. I can't take the flex away from the tire now, so if I can take it away from the OEM rubber bushing which will flex (the poly will not), then maybe the sum result would be to feel more like when the runflats were on the car.....

 

I had those tires on my Clubman. They were awesome. Unfortunately they stayed on the car when I traded them in. You are correct. You found the one trade-off from moving out of RFTs. It's not a bad trade-off though. You can easily fudge that feeling with suspension.

The Powerflex front control arm bushings are a start. It may not make a huge difference, but if its a relatively new car, you may not notice a huge difference as your stock bushings are most likely not worn down to the point where your car is feeling sloppy. But its a start in the right direction.

Your biggest step would be adjustable sway bars, not a tower brace.

 

Saw the same thing on my R53. Wound up going with Koni Yellows to get the feeling back. Just order conv tires to replace the 225/30/19 RFT's on my CM and I am praying I don't have the same issues. Going with Potenza RE11's this time around.

 

Good point, I have a HSport Comp RSB (25.5mm hollow) on the middle setting and the car will rotate if you try to make it. It holds straight longer and hard than the car did with stock RFTs even though I lost a little turn-in.

 

Your wife notices the turn-in difference between different tires? You're a lucky guy, make her breakfast in bed every Sunday until you get it sorted out.

My wife was driving her old car on the highway with a flat tire and didn't notice a problem until the tire shredded and took most of the wheel well with it.

 

A lot... I was just at an Evolution autocross drivers school and after only 3 back to back runs I gained 4psi... I intentionally started them at 38 psi when I wanted them in the low 40's because I new they would increase. 4 PSI change from just a little running. The track will generate a lo more heat.

 

Free camber mod will improve grip and turn-in. And it's...free.

- Andrew

 

Hey, GREAT advice so far guys. THANK YOU. I am soaking it all in.

Skibum, you actually DID make me laugh out loud!

She has done one road course event and did really well! BUT, in this case I'm not worried about high speed handling. She loved the way her MINI felt when she was just turning into a parking space. Even just slow, regular driving, the runflats felt like those hard rubber tires on a go cart and she loved that. I'm just trying to figure out a way to get some of that back.

She does love the fact that the new tires are not beating the living hell out of her car like the runflats did.

I do think once she takes these Pilot Sports to a road course, she will fall in love with how much faster they are. How much harder they brake, the better grip, and how much more predictable they are. Remember, her OEM runflats were the ALL SEASON Contis. Really awful tire.

 

We are are on our fourth set of tires on our MCS and they were all different. We currently have the Continental Extreme Contacts and they suck as it relates to "turn-in" compared to the Hankooks or the Kuhmos we've had in the past.

 

OP, have you considered taking the tires back? Don't know where you got them, but SOME tire dealers give you a few weeks for trade-in if you are unhappy (or maybe I'm just living in the past).

The last all-season Michelin tires I had never seemed connected to the road (but they rode well and were quiet).

 

I'm surprised that the Michelin Pilot Super Sports don't have a sharp turn-in response
given their high ratings on the TireRack surveys in that regard (9.5). I'd be interested
to hear how they're doing in a couple hundred miles. What pressure are you running?
I'd think about 36-38 psi should be good for your goals.
My old Bridgestone S-03 Pole Position tires had very stiff sidewalls for a non-runflat and
had great turn-in response. Don't think the current S-04 is in quite the same league for
turn-in response, but the RE-11 or RE-11a probably are, or maybe the Yoko Advan Neova AD08
or maybe the Dunlop Direzza Zii since we're talking about summer-only tires here with the
Pilot Super Sports.

Poly front control arm bushings are a great idea when the current stock ones start to go again,
but they're not going to do what you're seeking - they just last way longer and improve
tracking stability and boost turn-in response just a little without affecting ride quality much at all.
A strut tower brace is going to make very little difference.

 

Pilot super sports are awesome tires.

The OEM alignment is crap. With ultra stiff and non-grippy tires the minimal camber is not as noticeable. Do the free camber mod or get some fixed camber plates and enjoy.

- andrew

 

To be clear in case others find this thread, the Michelin Pilot Super Sports are outstanding performance tires. I have a set on my Viper as its street tire, and am very happy with them. They have excellent turn in for a non run flat, and I agree with the Tire Rack rankings (I bought them from the Tire Rack). I don't want anyone to get a negative impression of them. Same driver, same day, same track, same car, the Super Sports will obliterate the track time from the OEM run flats.

The -one- item that is more -fun- on the run flats is that they make the MINI feel like a go cart even when driving in normal daily driving. Not faster. They are not. But, the rock hard sidewall makes it feel like you get that razor sharp, instant, go cart reaction when you turn the wheel to turn into a parking spot. That is the -only- thing that she liked better about the run flats. That was fun to her. If I can get some of that back, she would like it.

Have to agree with you guys about strut brace. That would only have an effect under heavy loading and that is not what we are talking about here. If she started tracking the car more, I will absolutely look into an adjustable rear sway bar to help rotate the car. Alignment.....hmmmmm.....ok, I can see that. Thanks, I'll dig there.

Again, thanks for the opinions and advice.

 

I think it might have to do with the tires you replace them with. When I dumped them on my R53 with s-drives, I hated it! I replaced the RFTs on my CM yesterday with Potenza RE11s and honestly notice very little difference in handling. I was actually expecting a lot worst.

 

Hi Jeff,
I just read this thread and wondered if you found something that worked for your wife? This is better than TV, but I'm waiting for the rest of the story!