This is really an issue that plagues many if not all BMWs since the E36 came around. Guess that's when the bean-counter took over design from the engineers.

As Dr O mentioned above, read the newest Roundel. TechTalk mentions this very issue as a known problem on the E36 and E46 cars as well, with apparently no concern from BMW to correct it. Ironically, the E36 M3 suffered from this ill in 1995 until BMW did *** a reinforcement ring to the top of the strut mount. A whopping $5 part that fixed the problem then.

As a side note - digging through old magazines last weekend I came across a 2001 issue of European car - the last, completely undisguised tests of the MCS on the Ring - and to my surprise, it looks to be running on 15" wheels. Makes me think the run-flats were a last minute decision that didn't get sufficient testing before release.

 

hi Christina

Iam still waiting for a copy of the invoice

danny

 

Danny, I am sorry about that. I will get it to you this evening. I am at work right now and don't have it with me. I am trying to move to a new townhouse, and everything just kind of mushroomed.

I was pleasantly surprised myself.... Go figure.

 

I have been thinking about this.
Who would be interested in participating in the following:

[SIZE=2]Visiting and documenting mushroom strut tower damage at local mini dealerships selling used mini's. Then simply recording the last 7 digits of the vin of cars with visible damage and writing them on a pre-made form detailing visual confirmation of strut tower damage. This form would then need to be sent to the general manager of the store and a duplicate to BMW NA chairman Jim O'Donnel.

This would force the dealer to fix the problem before sale. Or take liabilty for future developments regarding that particular vin. Once the dealers get hit with the cost they will get an audience with BMW and this will be addressed.

[/SIZE]Just an idea

 

Too much work!

 

1) Jack front of car up and place on jack stands. You need both sides off the ground at the same time so that you take the stress off the sway bar.

2) Remove wheels (bolts 1-4 per side).

3)Turn steering wheel to one side and lock it. This makes access to the upper end-like bolt (The one on the side of the strut) easier to get to. Take off bolt (bolt #5) and slide through the end-link. Turn the wheel and repeat on the other side.

4) Take the brake line, the ABS sensor wire, and the brake pad sensor wire (if equipped) off the struts.

5) Undo the pinch bolt (big one on the steering knuckle) and remove it (this is number 6...). You have to take it out because it goes through a safety tab so the strut can't come out of the knuckle while driving if the bolt were to loosen.

6) Work the strut out of the knuckle. I rest the bottom of the rotor on a floor jack, and just work it side to side, whack it with a 2x4, whatever. I can slide out pretty easy. Depending on your model year, it may take a bit of creativity to get the drivers side out (at least on very early cars). I'll leave this as an excursize for the student! You want to keep the bottom of the rotor supported cause if you let it droop, it will lean away from the car, maybe far enough to pull the splines out of the tranny, and this is a PITA to deal with.

7) Undo the three top bolts on the strut tower. (bolt numbers 7-9....) Watch out, when the third one is loose the strut will drop. It's pretty heavy (at least to hold with one hand) so go carefull here. Don't worry, you won't break your wrist, just know that it's gonna want drop so be prepared. Once it's loose, you have to thread it through all the lines to get it free and take it out of the car.

8) You can either use the strut top nut tool (a deep socket cut away so you can get an allen wrench into the top of the strut) or an air wrench to undo the top nut. (Number 10!) There isn't much force retianed in the string so you don't NEED a spring compressor. But there is a bit of energy retained in there so be carefull. I've use the air wrench and just leaned into it, or put some ratcheting canvass straps on the spring when using hand tools. Strut compressors can be rented for very little money too, if you like to do things right....

9) once the top nut is off and the spring energy released, you just take off the strut guide and the spring perch, put the new one or ones on, and reverse the process.

It's not hard at all, and now I can drop a strut in less than 10 min. Took about a half hour a side the first time going very slow. If you have lowering springs, then it's even easier.... I don't think there's any energy (depending on spring brand) left in the spring when the strut is out of the car.....

Matt

 

The driver side tower has considerable mushrooming on my 03 MCS with about 80K miles on it.

 

Question My daughters car has been diagnosed with this problem. I do not know how bad or they just want her $. Has anyone added the inforcement plates any way, or pressed the bulge back down and put on the plates? Trying to save her some bucks. She has an '05 convertible with stock 15"

 

Yes, it's a piece of cake and well worth the money.

 

Interesting, totally bucking the 17" trend.

 

i have 06 cooper s convertible w/ 17" stock. The dealer said that it was my fault from potholes & costed me $1100. lol under warranty. Started to budlge again will have to order http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NM.../InvDetail.cfm

LOL nothing is covered under warranty.

by the way how do you input that cute mini cooper pic at the bottom of your quote

danny

 

if you can't do it yourself, look for one of the mini shops, or take the instructions (drop the struts, bang the craap out of the towers to get them flat) to a local shop. Then put the plates on.

I have no clue why they're charging so much to fix them.

Matt

 

I also have the stock 15" and had some pretty bad mushrooming, but I traced it back through careful calculation and deduction to my wife flying over speed bumps all the time! I wasn't sure whether to use the hammer on the strut towers or her...

 

Are there any pix of a straight edge laid across a pristine tower head and those with varying degrees of mushrooming?

I can convince myself that I've got a bit of mushrooming on one tower by one bolt, but it's about a 1/16th rocking of the ruler. I hit a pretty good pothole while turning a corner several months ago. I've ordered a set of Craven reinforcing rings just for insurance, but wonder how to know if I need to get the 2/4 and hammer out when they come next week.

 

I got a question. My passenger side strut tower frame(think thats what youd call it) is mushroomed like some of yours. The only reason this bothers me is because i wanted to get a strut bar. What i am asking is, is it still possible to still put in the bar or will it not fit onto the mushroomed frame? Has anyone done it?

Also, i have read through alot of this and sorry if ive missed some but how have people fixed the mushrooming? Ive read one account where it was bent back in. thanks in advance, this is really bothering me.

 

My Recent experience: I bought an 04 S with some nice alta mods and then joined here and found out about the mushrooming, Bought a pair of craven brackets to prevent it and the left one would not go on, the bolts were not aligned correctly, I got it on by putting the adaptors on finger tight then getting the plate on then tightening the mounting bolts. Think the towere was a little mushroomed?

Thanks!

 

id say yea if the other fit fine.

 

An update from me:

I just installed my CravenSpeed strut tower defenders last night. These are a very well made and beefy product, and I like how they incorporate a stud adapter instead of relying on just the OEM nut.

The strut tower on the right (passenger) side was definitely mushroomed. Had to use the 2x4 method to straighten the sheet metal enough to get the STD to bolt up. As I was torquing down the STD, I could SEE that the sheet metal was straightening out.

The driver's side wasn't nearly as bad, as the STD slid on fairly easily. I still noticed a bit of sheetmetal movement as I was torquing it down, which indicates to me that this tower was starting to mushroom too.

Something else to mention... After driving the car last night, I decided to recheck the torque on the STDs. The passenger side was nowhere near the 25ft/lb spec that I tightened it to. It almost appears as though the sheetmetal straightened out some more, so I torqued it down again. The driver's side was just a hair under spec, so I tightened that back up too.

Anyone else notice something like this when installing their strut plates?

 

Funny, but I installed my Craven supports last night, also. No 2X4 needed, but I did notice that the plate's bolt holes were hard up against the threads farthest away from the center. That certainly means the bolts were no longer perfectly true--they were beginning to lean outwards. 6800miles.

I did not notice any sheet metal movement as I torqued the bolts tight, but I did need to retorque after work, today.

R

 

you have a very minor case of the shrooms.

Matt

 

heh, as your requested, a bad'un (and this is after 10 minutes of pounding with the hammer/2x4) :


and the fix:



So, my front camber is now a bit aggressive for the street (-1.8); but the smiles per curvy mile... priceless.

 

How effective are the strut re-inforcement plates? I have yet to take delivery but if this is a major issue with MINI, I would like to get these plates installed right away.

 

Well, in order to fit my plates, I had to hammer down the passenger side tower top to enable the start a couple of threads on each bolt. As I tightened the nuts down, the plate flattened the tower top the rest of the way, and I was able to snug everything down to specs. Nothing has moved since then, so I can only surmise that everything is fine.

Zip

 

Holy sheet, today is Saturday and I spent three hours this morning and the last hour reading this entire thread. Damn there's a lot of info [but that's expected since this thread is ancient by forum standards.]

I had heard about the shroom issue over a month ago, so when I got my 2006 used MINI [non-S] I immediately slapped some M7 plates on. My strut plates were perfectly flat, so install was a breeze.

After reading everything in here, permit me to comment on conclusions I have reached:

1. It appears that if you have a stiff suspension, 17" wheels and run flats, that such "setup" is not compatible with the **** poor condition of our Nation's roads. In other words, a sport suspension, low profile tires and 17" wheels on a MINI are asking for trouble.

2. It appears that the problem is the plate at the top of the strut [front only.] It's not "beefy" enough to handle potholes, ruts, curbs and other road hazards.

3. I agree that the M7 plate [that I have] does not seem like it would be very effective since as one member said, the weak surface is "half the problem." And for sure, slapping something held in place with the three "stock" nuts [which are not very beefy] does not seem like the M7 plates would help.

But there have been enough people on here whom have installed the plates and have not had problems thereafter. That says a lot to me. So I like that I have the M7 plates installed.

4. Installing the M7 reinforcement plates does not mean you can now drive like a fool or that if you hit a pothole at 50 MPH that shrooming will not occur. But, IMHO, with the M7 plates you might not suffer as much damage than if you did not have them. At the minimum, I think the plates will distribute a shock evenly and the plates will absorb the shock in the same sense as a rubber plate or bumper/absorber.

5. If nothing else, this thread is GREAT as it stimulates discussion, makes members aware of the issue, and makes us better drivers. E.g., I am a better driver in the MINI because I now look way ahead, directly in front of me and all around in an effort to avoid potholes, ruts and dips in the road. It's almost a game now, looking out for and avoiding every road hazard. I look like a drunk driver on City streets, dodging the hazards on our roads.

Sidenote: San Francisco, where I live, was ranked as having the worst roads in the United States. That's because politicians take the money meant for road repairs and spend it on social programs [e.g., before Mayor Newsom cut it off, we used to give $100 million a year to homeless people, cash money. Each month homeless could stand in line and get up to $400 from the City.]

6. I have nothing to go on, but I suspect that many MINIs have suffered from the MINIs defective design. The only reason it is not a big problem is because the millions of MINI drivers out there are completely unaware of it. I suspect, as another member suggested, if used MINIs were inspected a large number of them would have indications of shrooming.

7. It's lame that some dealers will cover the repair under warranty, yet others will tell people to take a hike. That's horribly inconsistent. If it was me, I would sue the local dealer in small claims court. See my separate post. There's no way MINI owner's should be paying $1500++ out of pocket for something that is clearly a defective design.

8. I can see some basis for a dealer to deny coverage. Here in San Francisco all cars suffer from strut, shock and front end damage. If one lives in the City it is not will your car suffer damages, it is WHEN.

We had an Audi 90 that was a "go to the market" car for the ten years we owned it. Rarely saw the freeways. In that ten years we had to THREE TIMES replace the front struts. And when we sold the car, we told the new owner that it probably needed struts soon.

I never thought the Audi's front end was a defective design, I simply concluded it was delicate. But really the problem was San Francisco's roads. The poor Audi could not handle the Nation's worst roads.

And last year, on my friend's 2002 Sentra she had to have the front struts replaced because they too were shot. And she only had 27,000 miles on the car. It was those cursed San Francisco streets that were the problem.

The only vehicle I ever owned that handled San Francisco roads was my Toyota 4Runner. Its huge mud snow tires would not even sink into potholes, it would drive right over most.

Yes, roads and conditions differ depending on where you live, I am just saying that here in San Francisco [and L. A., etc.] there is a basis for the dealer to blame the damage on factors other than the MINI's defective design. To be sure, as cited above, I have had other vehicles too that have not stood up to SF's crappy roads.

9. As to someone else to have pay for the damage, might this be covered one's insurance policy, under the comprehensive portion? I know that my insurance comp provisions covers damage if a truck hurls a rock and cracks my windshield, so might an auto policy cover the MINI being damaged by an unavoidable pothole?

Yes, getting it covered under an insurance policy would be a hassle and subject the claim to close scrutiny, but maybe not. I have been with my carrier for 20 years. On a comp claim they don't even bother coming out or asking me to take the car into the adjuster. One time a homeless person keyed cars in the garage where I park. My carrier sent me a $3800 check on my presenting an estimate from the shop I wanted to do the work on my BMW.

So on a "pothole claim" would they do the same? I would think so. Duly note all carriers' claims handling procedures differ.

10. Yes, the poll in here is nowhere near be a reflection of the issue, problem and fix. As other members pointed out, the poll did not ask how much people drive, where they drive, does one consider him or her self a sport or conservative driver.

11. I agree with some members that its a pretty lame fix, to beat shroomed plates with a two x four and BIG hammer. Doesn't that weaken the metal and make it easier for the plates to shroom, again?

IMHO the best way to fix it is to have it done by a professional and then to install some M7 plates thereafter.

In any event, the MINI is a mid-range priced car [not cheap, but not $45,000+ either]. It is well made and semi-luxurious. Picturing someone with a hammer and 2 x 4 pounding the sheet out of it just seems wrong on so many levels. Even if this is what a shop would do, I don't want to be around when it happens.

12. It sounds like this is something that dealers need to deal with, cover the repairs via warranty or service bulletin, and for all of us in here, at least, to always keep an eye on things.

Sidenote: I wonder how many MINIs for sale out there, on car lots and through private parties, have shroom damage.

Well that's it, just wanted to put in my 32 cents on this thread. It was very helpful, even though I burned four hours of a Saturday on it.

 

After spending hours reading this thread and where people were told by the dealer the repair would not be covered by the dealer, I have the following tips on how to avoid paying out of pocket for the repairs.

1. Insurance: see my post herein. Your auto policy might cover strut damage under the comprehensive portion of your policy.

If you tell the carrier the damage was caused by a pothole, the claim might be covered as a road hazard.

The longer you have been with your carrier, the more likely they will take your word for it and pay the claim. Maybe not, but you know the old saying, it never hurts to ask all they can say is no.

I'd have a pic of the pothole if available [take a pic with your cell phone camera.] Also be prepared to give date, time, place where you hit the pothole.

You can in advance look at your insurance policy, or call the carrier to ask, to determine if this type of damage is covered under your policy. It will be the in "hazards" section of the policy where they describe the type of hazards that are covered [flood, mudslides, vandalism, hail, road hazards such as POTHOLES.] No need to wait until you make a claim.

2. Sue the bastards - See my post on taking the dealer to small claims court. Depending on the size of your claim, the dealer may not bother to show up and will simply cover the claim.

Bonus tip: Often times the head office [MINI in this case] has an agreement with dealerships deny payment under warranty. If the customer then sues, the dealer will settle and cover the claim with the understanding that the manufacturer will pay the dealer for the work. Ultimately, the dealer is not out any money. This process is prevalent in situations where the "defect" is common, such as this shrooming issue.

Suing does work. One story: My brother had a 1997 Audi. The timing belt was defective and and it was subject to a service bulletin telling dealers to inspect it whenever it came in for service. His dealer did not inspect it and the engine blew. $4500 repair bill.

Dealer said take a hike. My brother sued the dealer in small claims saying that the timing belt was defective, was not inspected and but for the dealer's failure to do so, the belt could have been replaced.

My brother got a $4700 check from the dealer!

Note: If the defendant does not appear in court, you win by default, usually. All you have to do is put in your evidence [proof of how much repairs will cost, printouts from the Net talking about the problem, pics of the damaged plates, etc.]

I would also use as evidence invoices from those on this Forum who were able to get coverage and also printouts from thread discussing the issue.

This is all sufficient evidence because in small claims court lawyers are not allowed and a defendant is not going to pay for an engineering expert to show up and prove you wrong. So the type of evidence I mention in here would be sufficient.

You need to be prepared with "expert" evidence [discussion, complaints, reports] that the deficiency is NOT the struts, but the strut mount surface [too thin.] If a judge determines you are simply complaining about "shocks" going out [an event everyone suffers] then you will lost. So it's essential you show pics of the shroom damage your MINI suffered, pics of other shroom damage, and the plates that vendors sell to fix the problem.

Probably the best evidence would be that MINI changed [beefed up] the area in the later cars. That is an admission by the manufacturer that the strut mount surface is too thin.

Also, I would get in evidence that the problem appears to be the combination of larger wheels and run flat tires. [Show the judge a printout of the poll herein. Not scientific, for sure, but one must ask why the graph shows owners with 17" wheels and run flats are suffering shroom damage [the most.] If I were a judge that would tell me that MINI should have come up with a thicker mount area to handle the less shock absorption one suffers who has the S [thin tires, larger wheels.]

While all this sounds daunting, remember that the proof standard for a finding in your favor is "preponderance of the evidence." That means 51% of the evidence has to convince the judge to rule in your favor. That's not much.

If I went to court on this I would make copies of every complaint about shrooms, every post discussing it as a defect, lots of pictures, etc. so that you could catch the dealer flat footed in court. I suspect if the dealer does show up that the rep would simply say a few things. No way he would be prepared with graphs, charts and discussion like you would be.

Also, don't forget to get into evidence the remedy for the damage. It's NOT the 2 x 4 and sledge hammer fix, a proper fix is to remove the damaged [and weakened] metal and to weld in new mount areas [a $2000 job?]. Maybe get the dealer to provide you a written estimate on a proper repair. That would be sufficient evidence of what the repair would cost. Just ask the dealer "can you put an estimate in writing please."

3. Sue the other bastards: Very few people know that you can pursue a govt. jurisdiction for failing to maintain roads, failing to repair hazards and for damages caused by the govt's negligence.

Here in San Francisco they pay "pothole damage claims" because it is cheaper to do that than to maintain the roads. My attorney/friend said that San Francisco adopted that policy long ago. Reason: few people damaged by poor road conditions bother making a claim or going to small claims court.

No surprise, she said that they initially deny all claims made [before going to court, you must first send a demand letter to the entity telling them about your claim and how much you want. Govt. bureaucrats always deny claims made.]

If you don't go away after they deny your claim and you sue, they never show up to court. It's cheaper for them to settle the case "on the courthouse steps" rather than send some non-lawyer from public works to court to fight the case [in small claims cases lawyers are not allowed to appear, so an employee of public works or wherever has to appear.]

So consider that as a solution. Take a pic of a big pothole, timely make your demand to the proper govt. entity [which will be routinely denied], file in small claims, and wait for check to arrive.

Heck, small claims is around $50 to pursue, so even if you have to appear in court, it's worth the gamble to see if you can win. [Here in California small claims is now $7,500 max. That should be enough to cover your damages.]

Bottom line: I have mentioned three ways to obtain a remedy for shroom damage.

Don't simply reach into your wallet to pay for it. I dunno about anyone else, but paying $1500 to $2000 is not an option in my book. If I am not responsible for causing the damage, no way I'm tapping my wallet. Duly note that for some it's cheaper to simply pay it yourself rather than hassle with court. That's fine, to each their own and most certainly that is what MINI, the dealership or a govt. entity are hoping, that you simply go away.

While going to court may seem a hassle, IMHO it will be viewed as such by a prospective defendant too. Odds are others will pay your damages rather than fighting you in court over such a small amount.

Even if you have to appear in court, so what, it's worth a shot to see what the Judge will do.