My mushrooming was only a couple of mm (both sides) but the suspension dropped without a problem, and the Mini-Madness under-the-tower plates (http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=334) pulled the bulge right back down when the studs were tightened.

I'm sure glad I caught it when I did - probably not too severe (at 50K miles) because I use light 15" and 16" wheels.

 

This is spot on. I submit, as said in my other post [about suing for a remedy], that what the video I posted is discussing strut or shock absorber repairs and other front end damage. In other words, people are buying shocks, struts, tie rods, wheels, etc. They are NOT getting $2000 repairs because of damage to the strut mount surface areas.

That's why, as said before, if suing in small claims court one would have to prove [to a 51% level] that it's a design/engineering issue, not the typical front end damage one suffers from crappy roads.

One has to make clear that the MINI owner is not in court complaining about common or typical front end damage.

You might even say that "Your honor, I have always paid for front end damage that is normal wear and tear due to road conditions, even though the Govt. is at fault for not maintaining the roads, but this is not damage from normal wear and tear."

That would help the judge understand the claim you will be proving with your mountain of evidence.

 

Yes, I think that the main issue is that the 15" wheels and non-runflats make for a softer ride, but more important, provide an extra layer of shock absorption to protect the surface mount areas.

IMHO, owners with 17" wheels and runflats have to calculate into the cost of ownership the risk of suffering shrooms at some point. Maybe a bad analogy, but this is almost the same as a kid's red wagon or tricycle that running with solid rubber wheels vs those that are air filled. Night and day difference.

 

I disagree. Manufacturers should design their vehicles to accomodate for normal wear and tear with all their factory components, especially with their own upgrades.

 

I don't think we are in disagreement. My point is that MINI should NOT have sold the S with 17" wheels and low profile runflats considering the shroom issue. Since they sold that configuration, MINI needs to own up to the defective design and cover under warranty those MINI S owners who suffer shrooms.

In the alternative, MINI should fix the problem at the plant. I don't know if all MINIs now have the beefed up strut mount surface, but if they have done so, then this is an admission that the earlier design is defective, especially when MINI buyers bought the S, totally unaware that the S is more prone to shrooms because of the "hard sport ride."

Bottom line, no MINI should be having the strut mount issue, regardless of which model will more likely shroom over another. The only thing that MINI owners should be suffering is the normal wear and tear to struts, etc. that everyone suffers from bad roads. Such damage is not MINI's fault. But the strut mount is MINI's problem. One need not look any further than other cars that do NOT need a $2000 repair, at least not to the extent MINI owners suffer.

 

I did a search for strut mounts and found this thread. I did the search because I just found out I have a cracked one on the passenger side.

2006 S ragtop with run-flats; very stiff ride and on roads in the NY/NJ area that are of course loaded with hazards, many of which you can't see until it is too late. I've already had to replace 3 tires in only 15,000 miles - glad I had the insurance, but I hear the insurer has become impossible to deal with due to the rash of claims.

In any case I found out my problem with the mounts indirectly. I didn't feel or hear anything, so I guess the cracked mount is not so terrible, yet. The dealer who found it said it was not bad yet too.

So, here is the tale. I'm pulling into a NYC garage on Tuesday and had the top down; I went to close up the car and the passenger window will not budge. I call my dealer who is 50 miles back into NJ and am told it is likely the motor (which is what I suspected), though this was a regular problem with models before 2006, so he is a little surprised that mine has gone bad (15,000 miles in a little over 2 years of ownership). Before driving back to NJ (Morristown Mini), I drive over to Mini of Manhattan and am in luck, as they can fit me in to check out the problem and expect they would have a motor if that were it. Of course it is a warranted item, so I am not worried.

They call me at 2 PM to say they took care of the motor and I can pick it up at any time, but wanted me to also know that they noticed the strut mount on the passenger side is damaged and that is not covered by warranty; it is road hazard damage in our area (he says maybe elsewhere they cover it, but certainly not in NYC). Of course my NJ dealer tells me the same thing.

By the way, I have the M7 strut brace and I have no evidence of mushrooming. I wonder though if the cracked mount is due to the resistance of the brace. Mushrooming or cracked mounts, which is worse? Maybe it isn’t a choice and I could have had both without the strut brace.

So, I gulped hard when I am told the cost in NYC to do just one mount is $575 before tax, because they rate it at 2.8 labor hours and charge $165 per hour. Morristown Mini is cheaper because their labor rate is "only" $110, so I am looking at about $150 less in NJ, except Morristown says they normally only do these in pairs (we'll see when they see it). While I appreciated the thoroughness and honesty on all the disclosures I was given by Mini of Manhattan, they are a BWM-owned shop, so they have no flexibility to strike any kind of deal; I would have probably done it right then and there in NYC, if they had been able to compromise at all, simply as it was already in their hands and it would save me a trip out to Morristown, as well as the 3 hour wait while they did it, but I decided to leave it for now, partly just so I could take a look here and see what others had in the way of experience on this issue.

I wasn't expecting such a vast ocean as this thread. I suppose I will have to spend some time now wading through these waters to get all the details and nuances, but already I see there is some degree of anger over the ease at which this apparently occurs and the related lack of warranty.

 

I would consider making a claim with any govt. entity who you think is most responsible. City and County of each road you were on. If that's three or four agencies, you have greater odds that someone will cover it.

If no one pays, I'd drag em all into small claims, a separate court for each. Out of all of them someone will pay, I suspect.

Make sure the dealer writes on the repair invoice that the damage was due to potholes.

I'd also get rid of the runflats and 17" wheels.

 

Probably tongue in cheek; at least I hope so, except for the last part. I doubt I'd get rid of the wheels, but I am seriously considering dumping the run-flats, once they are fully worn or the insurance coverage is over; they are so damn hard that you feel every single flaw in the road using them and they damage so easily on these crappy roads we have after a Northeastern winter, which never seem to get fixed fast enough, if at all. I'm not sure how inconvenient that becomes though, when I'll then need a spare and I suppose I have only the rear seat to put it in. Sure I've seen there are tire carriers and I can go with a donut version, which still seems too large to fit in my boot. I hardly ever have anyone in the rear seat though, much less two people.

 

Besdies your advice on the tire/wheel changes, what about other potential solutions? Did I misunderstand some of what I breezed through in this thread or was there a suggestion that the installation of IE camber plates (or other manufacturer's camber plates) reduced the likliehood of this happening? Did I also read it correctly that these can be used in conjunction with my existing M7 STB without any new issues developing? I already effectively resolved my hood being raised from the STB with the soaking the underbonnet-blanket method. So who's the resident expert here on these matters?

 

For example:

From the Auto X Cooper site -

Fixed -1.25 Camber Plates for all MINI Coopers (by IE)


These add approximately 1.25 degrees of negative camber to the front suspension. The stock Mini has very little front camber. This additional camber really improves handling without significantly affecting tire wear. These plates include new heavy duty upper strut bearings. They do not require drilling any holes and your strut brace will still fit. Will not raise the ride of your MINI. Bolt right in for DIY.

 

Or these:
http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=334

Depending on condition, if you install these and replace the strut-top carrier and bushing, you might not need a tower replacement welded in.

And, please, get over the "big-wheels" syndrome, and go with reality - set up your car for your local conditions. If you have replaced three tires in 15K miles, ditch the 17" for 15" or 16", and get some tires that have some sidewall.

One definition of insanity is, doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results...

 

^^^^^^^^^^^

There is no point ditching anything until the insurance term on the tires and rims is over (and the lease is over) and I buy-out the car. That is when it makes sense to make any changes. From what I've heard from more than one or two NE dealers, the run-flats are more the issue than the rim size.

 

See Old Rick's advice on the plates that go under the mount surfaces. I'm going with that. Those are NOT the camber plates, but the simple steel plates that install under the surface of the strut mount areas. [As opposed to the M7 or Craven "top plates" that quickly install on the strut mounts.

The only reason I mention the 17" wheels being a problem [and getting rid of them] is that I do not believe taller sidewall non-runflats will fit on the 17" wheel [I recall reading somewhere on NAM that the 17" wheel does not provide enough clearance in the wheel well for the non-runflats that have more sidewall/cushioning.]

You need more sidewall and air to act as a cushion, all the better to delay or prevent shrooms [in conjunction with the plates mentioned by Old Rick]. I don't attribute any science or engineering to this, but seems common sense to me. This poll [that started the discussion] shows people with 17" wheels and runflats suffering shrooms more than others. So to me, at least, that indicates the culprit is in part the hard shock inflicted to the strut mounts by low profile runflats.

So what I meant by ditching the 17" wheels is to enable you to install non-runflat tires, that will result in more sidewall to provide additional shock absorption than the hard ride of the runflats. [Sheesh... what a long and convoluted sentence. Too lazy to fix. Take the pain.]

Others can chime in on all of this. I may have that all wrong. I thought I saw in passing that someone put non-runflats on 17" wheels and the tires rubbed on the wheel wells. In reply to that, another Member advised that 16" or 15" wheels were needed to run non-runflat tires.

 

Non-runflats will work fine on any stock Mini wheel as long as you stay close to OEM sizes.

If you are lowered sizes larger than stock may rub because they are taller. As example, if not lowered, you can go larger in 17 inch tires such as 215/45/17 without rubbing and in 16 inch you can use 205/50/16 or 215/50/16 without rubbing.

The closer the overall diameter gets to 25.00 inches the more certain it is to rub.

To see the difference in tire sizes go to: http://www.discounttiredirect.com/di...foTireMath.jsp

Hope this helps...

 

^^^^^^^^^^^

I hadn't heard of the issue of non-run-flats not having clearance on 17" rims. I also already had the discussion about changing the tires when these are all done with my dealer and he didn't say there was any problem and told me of others he knew who had already gone that way. Kazlot's explanation sounds like why there can be a problem with certain sizes.

 

Makes sense to me. On reflection I think it was a thread discussing wheels larger than 17" and the members were talking about just how big a wheel one could get before tires rubbing the wheel well became an issue.

In any event, the runflats contribute to shrooms, I think. So you can revise my statement above, get rid of the runflats. I'm assuming runflats don't require a special wheel.

 

No special wheel needed. I can use my current ones.

Again, I don't have shrooms. I have the M7 STB and never had a shroom.

My problem is a cracked strut mount and it is not cheap to fix (over $400 or more depending on where I go according to the area dealers I spoke to). So, I'm looking for a solution that might reduce the likliehood of cracking my mounts while I'm still using the run-flats, which I'll likely have for 2+ more years.

 

I hear ya, I was simply discussing the shrooms and hard ride due to the runflats.

There was someone on NAM that had a cracked strut mount and his fix. Can't recall where it was. But do a search and it may show up. I am not sure what he did.

 

Here's my car's "specs" as it relates to this thread

Car: 2006 MSC

Summer
17" OEM rims
Kumho ECSTA AST XL

Winter
16" OEM that came with the car&runflats
some snow tire I forget

Ireland fixed camber plates + M7 plates on top, installed when the car was practically brand new (saw this thread before I had my car).

I'm outside Boston, our roads basically suck as much as anyones.
No rim damage, no strut top or busted mount damage at this time, car has just under 17k miles.


The runflats were really just too hard and the handling wasn't as good either (for me). Better tires, a little negative camber and beefing up of the front end a little and so far just fine. Have a kit in the back if I get a flat and a AAA card as well

 

I’ve repaired/restored a few MINIs with deformed strut towers and torn guide supports. All had OEM 17s, RFs, and low tire pressure. The latest had the shape of the guide support stamped in on one side, minor dome, but no torn bushing; I couldn’t remove the guide support contour ripple completely. The other side was domed with a badly torn bushing.

 

Thanks; I'll keep searching.

 

Thanks for that information. Do you have a link that will show the IE camber plates that you used? I understand there are a few varieties. It would help. Thanks again for the thorough run down.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are these them? Fourth item pictured -

http://www.autoxcooper.com/ie_suspension.html

 

Or here?

http://store.nexternal.com/shared/St...t=products.asp

 

Yeah, I think that's where I got them: http://store.nexternal.com/shared/St...unt2=840629220

From my invoice:

Invoice
Product Qty Unit Price Ext Price
Camber Plate - Fixed - Mini Cooper Camber Plate - Fixed - Mini Cooper
1 $180.00 $180.00

Ship Via: Best Method
Subtotal $180.00
Sales Tax $0.00
Shipping TBD
Total (Excluding Shipping) $180.00

You will receive a second e-mail when your order has been shipped. This e-mail will include the shipping charge.

Again, thank you for shopping with us.
Ireland Engineering
http://www.iemotorsport.com
626-359-7674
jireland@earthlink.net

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