If someone would measure the distances from stud to stud of a non mushroomed tower we could compare with suspected ones(at the stud's very end ,the most extreme distance) . You will need a good set of calipers.

 

Just looked at my car ('03 S, 66k, 17" mini alloys. No run flats). It looks like no cracking and maybe just a lil mushrooming on the passenger side tower.

I just ordered the Mini Madness plates. Looks like Mini Madness is about 5 miles from my work, so hopefully they'll show up quick and I can install em this weekend.

 

Can somebody help me here? I can't tell what is wrong with that picture AT ALL. My car is cracked on both sides but how can you tell if they are "mushroomed", especially with that picture. I thought the top of the strut was supposed to poke up from that view if it is mushroomed.

I just took my car in for warranty problems and they said my strut towers are mushroomed (which I already knew) and they said if I drive it like that the strut can go right thru the hood! Is it really that bad of a problem or are they scaring me.

Also, I plan on getting the m7 strut brace. What exactly is involved with putting one in. Is it just a matter of literally hammering the **** out of them till there flat? Or do I have to remove the struts and all that? MINI wants over $1000 to fix. $200 sounds alot better for a fix and added handling.

 

I see you are online, hold on and I will type you a response since there is nothing worse than the dreaded shrooms.

 

Have to say those are great pics of a shroomed MINI. Those pics are some of the best I have seen.

Warning: Keep in mind I am no expert, but check around NAM for my detailed posts on shrooms, the fix and other stuff. I posted my opinion in various threads, but it's just my NON-EXPERT opinion, formulated after spending about 20 hours reading all the posts and trying out the M7 plates, but settling on installing the MINI Madness steel plates (which you should do, only $100).

(Cont.)

 

I don't know what you mean by "cracked." Can't help you there if the strut mount surfaces are cracked all the way through the metal. But I suspect that is not what you mean. In any event, maybe that's a weld job if the metal has cracks that compromise the integrity of the metal. But I don't think that is your problem.

As shrooms go, the ones in the pics you posted don't look that bad. The one side appears worse than the other, but I suspect they can be fixed with the Mini Madness plates. In any event, I'd try the plates before doing anything else.

From all that I have read, and regardless of how your look, DO NOT HAMMER THE METAL BACK INTO SHAPE!!! Experts on here say that is plain stupid. It weakens the metal. In my non-expert opinion, that makes sense.

Think about it, the metal has been weakened once by getting the shrooms, then it would be "shocked" again by hammering the metal back into proper form. That makes no sense. While hammering may get that surface mounts looking nice again, inside the metal is like mush.

Old Rick, a member on here, AND Mini Madness, say that installing the Mini Madness steel plates (and tightening the nuts) will gently bend the metal back into shape. This makes a lot of sense rather than hammering the heck out of the metal with a 2 x 4 and mallet.

After the plates are installed if it were me I would switch to regular sized tires, etc. so to give you the cushioning your struts need.

But go with the steel plates from MM.

http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=334

By the way, I did not have shrooms, but I installed the MM plates. While I still drive with caution (San Francisco has been declared to have the worst roads in the nation), the MM plates make me feel a lot better.

As the the M7 brace, why do you want that? If it's to fix or prevent shrooms, it is not for that purpose. It's to make the body more rigid. It installs on the strut mount bolts, which would be a problem for your MINI if the bolts are not at 90 degrees, which they need to be to install the brace.

Also, between the M7 or Craven top-mount plates and the Mini Madness steel plates (that mount UNDER the strut mount surface you see in your picture) I would go with the MM plates. Just my opinion. Many people swear by the top-mount plates, but I think they are simply saying so because they looks nice, look like they protect the mount areas, and appear impressive.

But read Old Rick's and my posts on the comparison. It's a heated debate between many on NAM, but from an engineering standpoint it makes sense to have sold steel plates attached to the strut rather than to have a plate sitting on top of the fender well (strut mount surface, where those nuts are visible.)

I have attached the pics you posted with my explanation as to what they indicate.

 

Thanks alot man. That pic isnt of my car, it was from a quote. but I understand it better. About the mini madness plates, I can just install them and not have to hammer anything and it will go back down over time? That sounds pretty good to me. I'm guessing if I get the m7 tuning strut plates it will do the same? these:http://www.m7tuning.com/parts/produc...products_id=30

 

The M7 or other "top-mount" plates, that simply bolt on to the fender well do NOT work as well (if at all) as the MM plates to straigten or reform the strut mount surface. I have not read where anyone else has commented on the M7 plates being able to do that.

The MM plates are thinner and mount inside the fender well, so there is more bolt with which to attach the nut, even if the bolt is in an angle.

Yes, the MM plates simply slide into place (they send you install instructions). There is no hammering.

But see my detailed post. It took me and a friend three hours to do the install because I am not mechanical at all when working on cars. But now that I know how to do it, I could probably do it in about 1.5 hours.

My friend was not doing much, he was looking in from the top of the fender well and telling me when things were lined up. Guess he was there for moral support too.

But installing them is a really basic task. It's just that doing it once (and never again if i don't get another MINI) is like anything else, the first time takes longer.

 

I purchased both the strut tower defenders & under tower indurators from Craven Speed. Flattened those towers like factory new!! Very happy with Craven's product. Fast shipping. You can buy then both together with a nice discount too.

 

I installed the MM plates this weekend. Driver's side slipped on no problem. Passenger's side had minor mushroom, causing the holes on the plate to not line up. 2 out of 3 would line up and the other was off by ~ 1mm. I tweaked the bolts just a bit on the strut top and everything was fine.

I'm liking the peace of mind that the plates provide.


Shame on BMW for such a crap design though. It's not news that the strut tower is a very highly stressed area of the chassis. I don't know what the hell they were thinking designing it with one piece of thin flat metal like that.

 

"I'm liking the peace of mind that the plates provide." That sounds like a TV ad. MM should pay you to use it.

And also shame on BMW for not owning up to the MINI's defects and fixing them (strut mounts; CVT on early MINIs; etc.)

It's about 50/50 if a dealer will cover the repairs, that should not be the situation. For example, on this I think the MM plates are a good "mod" for that area, where the metal is way too thin. So MINI should recall the cars, repair the shrooms and install these kinds of plates.

Instead half, if not more, of the dealers tell the MINI owner the repair is not covered, it's his or her fault and to take a hike.

American auto makers have learned what can happen when a manufacturer has that attitude and refuses to stand by its products. It might take ten years for a bad attitude and flawed integrity to catch up with a shortsighted company, but eventually it will.

 

I installed my m7 strut brace about a week ago but realized how could it prevent cracking of the strut top?

 

the best preventative here is to keep an eye on tire pressure. These parts aren't very good and the rubber bearing mount can give out. If they bend from mushrooming, the metal can crack as well.

And for those that aren't putting plates on themselves and are paying for labor, I'd suggest just going all the way to some camber plates: You get improved strength, and you can get increased front camber that for many of us has significantly increased tire life. Mine paid for themselves in the first year.....

There's more than one way to skin this cat for sure...

Matt

 

my dealer pointed out a strut problem one strut top mushroomed
and one was cracked all the way around i was told it was from hitting pot holes ( sounds like a design problem to me) the one that was cracked they warranted but the other i had to pay for cost me $540.00 they installed
new top plates and strut tops. has anyone had this same problem?

 

So Mini-madness "under" plates or the Craven Under Tower Indurators....which are better? The Craven's are cheaper...

- andrew

 

I bought my car at 49K and has slight mushrooming on the passenger side. I used the Craven Defenders, only on top. Since then I have had no mushrooming and when I dumped the runflats I had the alignmnet checked and it wa spot on, so I guess they worked.

If I had to do it over I think I would have used the underplates.

 

Like to subject says, I finally got a mushroom and I had not read these post or else I would have gotten the plates on there before I starting driving it. My drivers side, has a huge shroom due to a pothole full of rain that I missed missing. No tire damage but a shroom

After reading all the post and being an engineer and car guy, I had to chime in.

The strut mounts, towers, and tires are all to blame. The strut mounts should be thicker/larger and the towers should be thicker metal. This is a simple issue of force and area. The force comes from the road thru the tires thru the strut, etc. (Run flats most likely causing more force since they do not allow the tire to deform the entire sidewall, which would lead to a blowout in the tire but also kill your rim). The strut mount is a small piece of metal and in my option its not thick enough and not a large enough area. Therefore the force is transmitted to the towers at 3 points (the bolts). If I look at all the pictures and my towers it seems like the issue is mostly between the rear nut closest to the engine (either pass or drivers) and the front most nut. The area between these two will always have the most force, and it is also in the weakest area of the tower (all by itself on the inboard side far away from the vertical part of the tower.

The best solution would be for Mini to increase the tower thickness (weld a plate that connects the horizontal (top flat) part of tower to the vertical parts, since it is harder to stretch steel then bend it. This would transmit the force back into the vertical parts of the towers. Or they could increase the strut mounts area/thickness to distribute the force better.

Since this is not likely to happen, if I look at all the designs out there the best is Mini Madness Plates. I'll be buying them and maybe even welding them to the vertical parts of the tower if they actually reach the edges. I would make my own but don't have the time right now.

Here is my opinion on the other parts; the Craven Speed plates look like they address the strut mounts not being thick enough but do not have enough area to improve tower strength. The tower top mounts address the tower strength, but it also means that the bolts/nuts are providing the clamping force to increase the tower strength.

Anything is better then nothing, but MM seems to be the best solution out there. Only thing is installation. Should be simple for someone who knows cars and has the right tools (30mins or less) but I saw some people taking 3 hrs. The top mounts are a 5 min install and should be enough for most drivers and roads. I have Mich roads with potholes that could eat my Mini let alone mushroom.

That's enough of my rant, '07 R52

 

No opinion on the M7s?

 

The whole post is well thought out and articulated. Just wondering which plates you were talking about?

The STDs? The UTIs?
or

While I don't take issue with the assertion that the cold rolled steel undertower plates are stronger, empirically, the tower toppers have done the job for everyone who has installed them. Installing the UTI is not as much fun and does raise the ride height 1/8 inch. So there are trade offs to having the strongest option. Want both? Buy the STD and get the UTI for $50

 

The M7 are just like any top mount plate, they may be bigger but they still cause bolt stress.

As Kellen said top mount (STD) have done the job for everyone who has installed them and I won't agrue with that. The Mini Strut tower is weak and needs reinforement, so almost any plate will provide it. I'd just worry about bolt stress. That may explain why Craven has new studs, better then M7. Also means their STD is the same thickness and is not weaker at the bolt locations.

The bottom mount (UTI) may increase height by 1/8 inch but in terms of suspension that nothing. A person's weight can move the car height more then that. The UTI are good just wish they covered a larger area.

No thanks for the buy, actually making my own under plates.

With regard to my comment on welding the plates, I looked further and would not recommend welding the UTIs to the vertical parts of the strut tower as Mini has used filler around this area. It may still be ok to spot weld in a few areas on the top of the strut tower.

Side Comment: Mini OEM Strut Tower Design - Looking at this more it seems like the raised parts of the tower (bump ups) were put in place to provide additional strength, yet it was not enough. They should done a min of 3 bump ups, 1 between each bolt. Also the R55/56/57 look like they have a smaller tower area which should reduce mushrooming but not knowing the thickness of the metal, I can't say for sure.

 

You could also get a set of IE Fixed camber plates and improve the handling at the same time as addressing the mushrooming issue.

 

^ still planning on getting those from you guys....just been a crazy week trying to sell my old car.

- andrew

 

The Fixed strut mount plates do not look much bigger then the stock strut mounts. They may be thicker but in terms of area they don't seem to give you more. See attached a force diagram. If the fixed plates are actually taking the strut inboard then they may cause a great shroom if they were the same thickness as stock. Yet since they are thicker metal they will most likely not.

 

The IE Fixed mounts look substantially larger then stock to me:



Your FBD assumes that the 3 bolts are doing a lot of work....they're not. They're just locator studs. Take them out and replace them with toothpicks and they'll do just fine (okay not really, but they aren't seeing substantial vertical loads). But think about it...take them out and the strut isn't going through the car. They keep the mount centered/located correctly, that's it.

Also, stress is actually a little less the farther away from the center hole you go. Stress is Force/Area, but that gets you an average stress. It does vary across the surface, but the stress is less the farther from the applied force.

The IE Fixed plates have a lot more area than the stock mounts (look at all that area around the center hole for stock compared to IE). I don't think there is anymore room on the inner side of the plate...that flat edge i think is where it meets the tower. Not 100% sure on that. EDIT: might be wrong there. Either way, I think the increaesed area, thicker steel, and replacement beefier bearing is the best way to go for me.

EDIT 2: the mini madness plates DO look great....no doubt about it. they do cover a little more area and if i didn't want the camber i'd probably go for them.

- andrew

 

You are correct in the bolts do not do alot of work if you are adding bottom mount plates like the fixed camber plates, but if you add the M7 or Craven top mount plates the bolts are doing alot of work that as you pointed out they were not designed to do. The bolts are just there to center/locate but using a top mount plate causes them to have to hold a clamp load. Not sure if they are sized for that since I'm not a Mini Engineer. I also found a post were someone pulled the studs out of strut mount while trying to using the stock bolts to straighten a shroom, that would tell me that they are not sized for it.

Agree that the stress if less away from the force but if the force is in the center of the tower and the distance from center to edge is large then less force gets transmitted to the vertical parts of the tower and more stays in the flat part causing a shroom. You want greater area for distribution of force.

The EI plates do have more area since the center hole is smaller then stock but I'd like to have them and a large plate to reinforce the tower. Not sure if EI take up the greatest on the outside dimensions. The offset scares me since its at the weakest part of the tower. Especially if I were racing or have roads like I do in Michigan.

I plan on actually welding the plate or bolting it down in the area marked in red. It is not possible to bolt thru with the EI plates since the mount is behind there but you could drill out the downward facing stud and bolt all the way thru (tower,