Stock Problems/Issues Discussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S(R56), and Cabrio (R57).

Cam timing

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  #101  
Old 09-15-2015, 06:34 AM
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So I finally got the engine out, transmission off and set the flywheel properly. This is a valeo setup now, and there are like 4 ways you can install it, only 1 being the right way. I put the chain back together properly and turned it over. Got 180-185psi on cylinders 2 and 3, and 150-160 on 1 and 4. Pretty sure it's got some valve damage, so I took the head off. The valves actually look pretty decent. How can I tell if they're bad? Maybe it's my rings that are no good....
 
  #102  
Old 09-15-2015, 09:49 AM
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With the head on a workbench, valves pointing up, fill the combustion spaces in the head with mineral spirits or kerosene and let it sit. If the liquid level stays, then the valves are good, if it leaks down, then the valves are not sealing.
 
  #103  
Old 09-15-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by IDoSeaDoo
I can't believe the poor luck this mini had... The guy who did the clutch put the flywheel on wrong, putting the crank-lock timing hole 90deg off. Then, the guy who tried to fix the chain failed to check the placement of the cylinders as well as to crank it over by hand. Had to pull the whole engine/trans to get to the flywheel. This is by far the hardest, most cramped car I've ever worked on. I hope the flywheel bolts aren't TTY (one-time use), or I'll be REALLLY peaved...
Hang on tight --- per the Bentley manual, both the crank-to-flywheel and the clutch pressure plate-to-flywheel bolts are to be replaced. The six crank bolts have a "unique" torque sequence, so I'm pretty sure these are TTY bolts.

And I gotta agree with DneprDave --- check for valve seating. Not likely that the pressure difference is caused by rings. All the numbers are good, just not within a reasonable percentage of each other.
 
  #104  
Old 10-20-2015, 06:00 AM
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Well, she's running again :)

After days of work and weeks of waiting for parts, my little Clubman is alive. Took the first test drive yesterday (my first Mini experience) and wow, what a car?! I loved the throttle response and crisp handling. The problem was some idiot put the flywheel on wrong, and when it went in for a timing chain, they destroyed every valve in the engine. All 16 were doing the funky chicken when I spun them in my drill. I went ahead and replaced the piston rings while I had it apart, as the ring end gap on the top ring was questionably within the widest margin of teh spec. I also cleaned all the carbon buildup off the pistons, man were they dirty?! I believe the PO ran conventional oil in it, as it was never hard to wipe off my garage floor. So 4 sets of rings, 16 valves and a head gasket later, it's assembled and purring in the drive way. Only issue I wonder about is the slight hesitation at idle. I've not run her very far, maybe a mile, but at idle, while standing at the tail pipe, I can hear a slight variation in RPM. It'll go up, then down ever so slightly... Could that be the timing advance solenoid on its way out?
 
  #105  
Old 12-07-2018, 08:28 AM
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Cam timing

How to time the cams when the flywheel does not have the 90 degree hole in it? I have a single plate flywheel.

Originally Posted by czar
If you take a good look at this photo, you can just make out the index writing on both camshafts (centre of picture) whilst the camshafts are locked in their correct positions (index writing must always be upward facing) it is possible to lock the camshafts 180 degree out of time (index writing downward facing) and this is WRONG, so be very careful.

170280[/ATTACH]"]Attachment 170280

Another view of the camshafts correctly locked in position.
170282[/ATTACH]"]Attachment 170282

In this photo you can just see the index writing on the Exhaust camshaft (top left of picture) with the camshafts locked in their correct positions.
170284[/ATTACH]"]Attachment 170284

Crankshaft locking pin.
170286[/ATTACH]"]Attachment 170286

Camshafts locking tool
170288[/ATTACH]"]Attachment 170288
Zcam night
 
  #106  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by danraabe
How to time the cams when the flywheel does not have the 90 degree hole in it? I have a single plate flywheel.


Zcam night
First, are you sure it doesn't have the locking pin hole? It's on the back side, facing the block. It can be hard to locate. I use a very small screwdriver or small drill bit (instead of the actual pin) while watching a pair of equal length sticks to be at the same height (inserted in plugs 1 & 2 or 3 & 4). This can happen four times, but only one will allow the screwdriver to find the hole. Then it's a matter of jockeying the flywheel around 'til the pin slips into place.

Actually, my OS Giken was one of the last mfg'd without this hole --- apparently they weren't aware it was needed. I didn't find out 'til I had already unloaded the OEM. I found a scrap OEM flywheel just for timing. Eventually, I took both the scrap version and Giken's to a machine shop and had them drill the hole. Works great!

Here's a pic of the scrap flywheel, with the locking pin hole circled. The other holes are probably balancing holes, and are a different radius.

 
  #107  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:38 PM
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Thank you. I made 20+ phone calls today around Denver and Colorado Springs to find a used flywheel. Finally this afternoon I called a dealer up north and holy-crap they had one which they are loaning me. Is that luck or what? I'm driving up there to pick it up soon. I am hoping the machine shop and drill a new hole in the proper location in case there are any timing issues in the future. The Mini tech confirmed that all the pistons are at the same height BTDC at 90 degrees. It's rare but some of the other techs have built N14 engines as well and were familiar with the problem.

Thanks for your assistance. FMI where in the world are you? Just curious. All the best, Dan Raabe
 
  #108  
Old 12-07-2018, 04:01 PM
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My shop told me this hole is actually an oval --- long axis on the radius, not circumference. Anyhow, congrats on finding one to use.

Upper right-hand corner of my posts show location as "Northern NV". Specifically, I'm about a 1/2 hour East of Carson City, in a little town called Dayton. Close to Virginia City and Reno too. Only one other bad-*** Mini in the area, all the others are mostly OEM, hardly any stage 1's. Our club, Sierra Nevada Mini Coopers (SNMC) still has some fun events tho.

Good luck getting that hole machined.
 
  #109  
Old 12-08-2018, 01:43 PM
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The vanos can adjust some out of static timing but slack and wear in the chain means its good to check now and then. I set the crank shaft by looking for the gap in the hall efects wheel you can see it by where the sensor is then i set 90 deg by using a rod/dowel to check piston height. for best static setting rotate the engine a while then use a dial indicator gauge on the valve stem its maybe a bit overkill but I like my static dead on, when set right an engine will start first crank all the time. there is also a T line on camshafts that is set up equal distance.
 
  #110  
Old 12-18-2018, 11:04 PM
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camshaft timing

Originally Posted by czar
you cannot time the engine at TDC, there are no timing marks on the N14 engine!

You must lock the crankshaft at 90 degrees BTDC first, and then the camshafts must be locked in their relative position, to make sure the cams are in their relative position, you will see the index writing face upwards, between No 2 and No 3 lobes on both the Inlet and Exhaust camshafts.

Do NOT attempt to to set your camshaft/crankshaft timing up, without the correct locking tools, as it will end in tears!
I found a twin mass flywheel at a local dealer. The engine builder used it with the tool to set the crank. The only thing that worries me is that I used a Cat Cam and the engraving is in a different place. I know they set the cams with the engraving facing up.
 
  #111  
Old 12-19-2018, 08:26 AM
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FYI. I purchased an aftermarket flywheel from JMTC and it looks nothing like the original. And there is no place for the 90degree hole. So fuggadeaboutit. The way to go if the engine is out of the car is to source a used stock flywheel and set the crank. Also the Cat Cams are not engraved with an expensive laser like the factory cams. Hopefully Mila from Cat Cams engraved his info on the correct side of the cam. I'm waiting for him to respond to a few questions and I'll share the answers.
The engine is back together and I'm installing the peripherals. Not sure about the fuel injector tool but I'll follow the Bentley manual.
******** that I can't believe is designed into the engine - Oil filter housing. The machine shop looked at it and had to grind the mating face with the engine to make it flat. Three bolts to mate it to the block? How stupid.
 
  #112  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by danraabe
I found a twin mass flywheel at a local dealer. The engine builder used it with the tool to set the crank. The only thing that worries me is that I used a Cat Cam and the engraving is in a different place. I know they set the cams with the engraving facing up.
Since mine is still all apart, here's a pic of my Cat cams, showing the markings. No, they aren't laser marked and they're marked between lobes 2 & 3 instead of 3 & 4, but still facing up. Also note the special locking tool location --- the tool will only mount one way on the cams --- one of the four surfaces is still round, preventing the tool from installing. Cam could be installed, just not locked in place properly. You could also use Bentley's pics of the cam lobes pointing in specific directions. When I bought my cams, there were only two authorized dealers in the USA --- VAC Motorsports and another on the west coast. Mine was from VAC. Are you sure yours are Cat Cams?

Originally Posted by danraabe
FYI. I purchased an aftermarket flywheel from JMTC and it looks nothing like the original. And there is no place for the 90degree hole. So fuggadeaboutit. The way to go if the engine is out of the car is to source a used stock flywheel and set the crank. Also the Cat Cams are not engraved with an expensive laser like the factory cams. Hopefully Mila from Cat Cams engraved his info on the correct side of the cam. I'm waiting for him to respond to a few questions and I'll share the answers.
The engine is back together and I'm installing the peripherals. Not sure about the fuel injector tool but I'll follow the Bentley manual.
******** that I can't believe is designed into the engine - Oil filter housing. The machine shop looked at it and had to grind the mating face with the engine to make it flat. Three bolts to mate it to the block? How stupid.
A scrap OEM flywheel will also work --- usually. Lots cheaper and readily available too. I took a scrap version with my "unfinished" aftermarket flywheel to a machine shop, for them to drill a tool hole and rebalance. Been working fine. I'd rather spend the extra bucks than swap flywheels anytime timing needs to be verified. Too bad you can't get JMTC to spring for the machining / rebalancing.

If the head is already mounted, you're pretty much committed to getting the FI seal tool. Do them one at a time then the rail.


 
  #113  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:48 AM
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They are Cat Cams. I ordered them through Snead4Speed. Came in a Cat Cams box.
Like I mentioned the last technical hurdle is to wire up the N18 oil pump using MSD components to open the solenoid at the correct RPM.
 
  #114  
Old 12-20-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind
Since mine is still all apart, here's a pic of my Cat cams, showing the markings. No, they aren't laser marked and they're marked between lobes 2 & 3 instead of 3 & 4, but still facing up. Also note the special locking tool location --- the tool will only mount one way on the cams --- one of the four surfaces is still round, preventing the tool from installing. Cam could be installed, just not locked in place properly. You could also use Bentley's pics of the cam lobes pointing in specific directions. When I bought my cams, there were only two authorized dealers in the USA --- VAC Motorsports and another on the west coast. Mine was from VAC. Are you sure yours are Cat Cams?
OOPS, I lied! Just started assembly and found out that the factory marking on Cat's exhaust cam is NOT on top when locked in place --- it's facing down. Cam lobes point correctly per Bentley.

Dan, you might want to talk with Kevin Parker, of FaceBook's Project SuperCooper. He tried the N18 oil pump in his N14 but went back to OEM. I'm not sure why, but maybe he can save you some grief.
 
  #115  
Old 12-29-2018, 12:48 PM
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How tight do these factory locks fit the cams? The aftermarket ones I have seem a little loose..You can move the cams slightly which doesn't seem right to me.
 
  #116  
Old 12-29-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck holtz
How tight do these factory locks fit the cams? The aftermarket ones I have seem a little loose..You can move the cams slightly which doesn't seem right to me.
Cam locking tools should fit "snug" around each cam when both halves are bolted to the head and each other. I suggest you return them and get a different mfg'r set.
 
  #117  
Old 12-29-2018, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind
Cam locking tools should fit "snug" around each cam when both halves are bolted to the head and each other. I suggest you return them and get a different mfg'r set.
do you have any brand recommendation or just buy mini ones?
 
  #118  
Old 12-30-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck holtz
do you have any brand recommendation or just buy mini ones?
Mine is made by EWK ---
Amazon Amazon

There's probably others out there just as good.
 
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