Hi Folks:

New to forum but very active in other auto forums. New to the Cooper/BMW brand.

Bought a 2012 Countryman S4 yesterday for my wife. Manufactured in fall of 2011, 1st owner bought in November and "traded in" for new Mini to original dealer this past August with ~ 9500 mi.

Its a fully loaded model with ~ 10,400 mi on it now.

After negotiating price (dealer had it for 33,000) we did the paperwork. At the very end, the manager had me sign an acknowledgement/disclosure that I am aware that BMW subsidised the original purchaser as part of a trade in process. When I asked what that was all about, the dealer stated that the car had problems with the thermostat and oil leaking and to make the original customer happy, BMW stepped up to the plate.

Per the dealer, the thermostat was changed to a new type by a different manufacturer because the original t-stats were causing problems and the oil pan gasket was changed. He attributed BMW's involvement to a very particular customer and BMW and Dealer's desire to "make it right" and move on.

So the car seems to run fine, it has all the bells and whistles for the model and my wife loves it.

I have been thinking about the whole situation more and I'm wondering if I made a mistake. Would BMW get involved by paying money to subsidise lost value on a trade in just to keep a picky customer happy when the only problem (acknowledged) was a faulty thermostat and a leaking oil pan.... ?

I should add: The car came with a 6 year/100K MINI NEXT certified pre-owned warranty.

Also: the Carfax report has no info regarding repairs or buyback only that it showed back up in dealer inventory with 9500 mi on it

 

Typical reason for a "subsidized" buyback, is that MINI initiated a "Lemon Law" buyback. Car was probably in the shop 4+ times, or 30+ days in the shop for the same problem.

I know this because MINI is in that process with my Mini right now.

Good thing you have the extended warranty!

P.S. I would suggest that you request service repair history from your dealer

 

I don't think that history makes your car any worse or better than another without the disclosure. ALL MINIs have their issues, and most of these cars exhibit some of them early in their life. Some people prefer something less troublesome, but if MINI is the right car for you, I wouldn't worry about this.

 

I'd be more worried if dealer hadn't disclosed vehicle being returned. At least the dealer came forthright with the exact issues. Relax and enjoy your new car (thank the previous owner for working out the bugs)

 

The Lemon Law gets initiated for three failed attempts during the first year for the same issue. The thermostat issue has been a known issue and only recently solved and MINI is slowly doing recalls on it. So chances are the three strikes were due to the thermostat in the first year when MINI had no other fix than to just keep replacing the same part. (Apparently the part would get too hot and a soldered connection would melt.) Very recently they are slowly recalling and fixing the thermostat issue which I think involves a new part and relocating it to a cooler place. I'd ask if that was why Lemon Law kicked in, if so then no big deal provided the oil leak is solved.

 

Thanks for the feedback folks; I will get back to the dealer on a couple questions:

- Repair history
- what problem(s) actually triggered the buy-back ?

anyone know if there were concerns of engine damage as a result of these thermostat failures ?

The car is really very cool. I'm a 4Runner driver myself and do most all the work on those myself... not so sure about diving into this one though. I like it but more importantly; my wife loves it !

PS: does anyone know what is actually covered in the MINI-NEXT extended warranty; I can't find anything that describes it anywhere.

Safe travels, Jon

 

Greg, did the aftermarket mods you made to the car cause any issues getting warranty service, or were the mods you made unrelated to the problems you are having with the car?

 

Good question. No warranty issues, since my dealer installed the JCW Stage II kit and the Mini endorsed NM Engineering parts, which were covered under the car's 4 year warranty.

 

Thermostat gasket is a well known issue. Mine was replaced 3 times, finally with the better design. Faithfully oversee all the fluid levels on a timely basis and get it in for its regular checkups and enjoy the heck out of it. Look for a local MINI club and get acquainted. There is a lot of knowledge to be found there too.

 

Well, they had to disclose it by law, and the buyer must sign that they received the disclosure. I find it interesting that nothing was disclosed until the final stages of signing for the purchase. The dealer knows that a lemon law buyback is a tough sell. You're in a position to ask for extra free maintenance and warranty. Honestly, it's hard to relax and enjoy your car knowing it was a lemon law buyback.

 

Here is a link to the mini next PDF brochure
http://www.miniusa.com/sections/next...hure__lite.pdf
I bought a 2011 used with the next coverage. I think it was a great plan and what sold me on the used over new.

 

JD,

If that car was grey and had 20K on the clock I'd be worried cause it would be mine!

We just received a Brand new CMSA4 due to the problems we had. Mini bought our car back and gave us this one. Follow my other posts and you will see what is up.

I hate to be the bearer of the bad news but it's better you understand what happened.

BTW the cost of our 2012 that the dealer paid is 28K and change. No it's not fully loaded but it's brand new, has an Auto and a lot of add on's.


This is the way Mini deals with Lemon's before they go to court. It avoids the legal action and allows them to resell what is effectively a lemon.

Sorry dude!

 

Does anyone know if the issues have been fixed..on new Cms being produced or will I have to worry about this when my car finally makes it stateside

 

In general running changes are first applied to new production; then TSB's (or recalls) are put out to make the changes to cars in service. For example cars that have been produced recently have the new engine temperature sensors that now are being replaced on cars in currently in service.

 

As supergreg said ... get the service history while you still have time to return the vehicle.

But honestly, if the only problems were the thermostat and oil pan gasket, then I wouldn't worry about it. Congratulations on a great deal!

 

Thanks DR61!

 

Was it a great deal? It wasn't clear from the OP's posts. But it should have potential to be a great deal. A dealer doesn't want to be stuck with a buyback sitting on the lot. That's very undesirable for any buyer looking at it. The dealer would be happy to be rid of it.

It was only disclosed at the last minute. Imagine if the OP had understood the implications at the time and said, "Ohhh, I see... it's a lemon law buyback. I'll have to think about it. Let me get back to you." The dealer would have been squirming and making concessions on the spot.

 

soooo ...

The car is not grey Knownman its pure Red with black hood stripes. As stated, it has ~ 10400 mi on the clock and was "traded in" (with BMW subsidising) at 9500 mi so I assume the dealer put the 900 mi on it between trade in and sale. New with the options this car has tallies up to just shy of 37 K so we got it for a decent price but I wouldn't say a great one.

The disclosure was presented as one of the very last documents to sign and was described as just making me aware that BMW contributed to the trade in in an effort to satisfy a customer that was "particular" and did not want to deal with the thermostat issue and oil leak. He assured me that those were the only issues and that they had been taken care of in a definitive way with a completely different thermostat and a new design of oil pan gasket. No form of citrus fruit ever came up in the conversation.

I should have been more on guard but I really wasn't thinking "Lemon Law" when he described BMW's involvement; it sounded more like a dealership making it right for a customer. Silly me... Don't really know what my recourse is at this time; caveat emptor and all that.

 

You probably have a car that is fine, but that doesn't matter now since the worry is there. Everyone is assuming it was a lemon claim.... just get the service history so you know for sure, grip your warranty tight and enjoy the car. 90k miles and 66 months of driving relatively worry free when it comes to repairs is nice!

Michael

 

Actually, no. Based on my research, the problem is that the temp sensor leads can become "unsoldered" from the module that provides the temp data over the CANbus to the engine management module. Evidently, the engine management software is designed to respond to an absence of temp data it two ways:

(1) if the CM is running, it goes into "limp" mode to prevent damage;
(2) if the CM is not running, it does not allow the CM engine to be started.

HTH,

 

You didn't buy a lemon.I doubt if any Mini dealers sell cars with branded titles. Factory warranty is always the best. If I were you I would call and talk to the general manager of the dealership and he/she should be able to explain and answer any of your concerns.And after all that,if you are not satisfied, I am sure they would unwind the deal and you could just buy a new one.