Hey folks... you seem to know your stuff here.

I've been ramping up the process to try and settle on what I want so I can get the show on the road.

I've read somewhere that the mechanical LSD was going to be dropped for 2010... but building my dream machine on MINIUSA I see I can still get the LSD.

So.... do I need both DTC and LSD.... or which one? I won't be doing any off road/bad road driving and snow will be limited to about 2 or 3 days a year max. I won't be racing (except in my mind) but I do appreciate having good stuff.

Thoughts?

So far I'm looking at BRG with black roof and a little bit of everything.

Thanks,

Richard

 

I don't think you would need it. DTC should suffice for your situation. Some think LSD would help at the track because they fear DTC will contribute to brake overheating. I don't think anyone here has tested that theory. So, it is just speculation.

For normal spirited driving I doubt that LSD would add anything to DTC, other than weight and mechanical complexity.

I have LSD in my 2007 MCS and it is not ideal. I wish I had DTC instead, but it wasn't available then.

 

So the S model can get an LSD, but the JCW model comes with the ELDC, what's different between them?

 

EDLC is electronic differential lock that uses brakes to maintain acceleration of wheels thru corners... well it sorta works like LSD but technically not.

I think there is a big post about it where someone regularly tracks his JCW... he recommends some sort of better brake pads that can withstand more heat, as since the EDLC system does apply brakes individually thru corners.

If you're not going to track I would say ditch LSD and go for DTC, could be a more comfortable experience when driving... however I haven't ever tried any cars with LSD... since meh mini is my first car... well technically.

 

Its only a 500.00 addon if I remember right. Well worth it in my opinion.

 

Mato's right... the EDLC system (part of DTC) was designed to replace the mechanical LSD in the JCW and most BMWs.

Basically, the LSD option is a mechanical LSD. It mechanically transfers power to the wheel with better traction once the other begins to spin.

With DTC/EDLC, the differential is still technically an "open differential." Essentially, the power is going to go through the "path of least resistance".

For instance, if you have a car with an open differential (no mechanical LSD and no DTC/EDLC) and you put one front tire on ice and floor it, the power is going to go almost exclusively through the wheel on the ice because it is easier to spin. This is obviously not ideal for inclement weather or spirited/track driving.

So, what DTC/EDLC does is it uses the wheel speed sensors to determine when one wheel is spinning faster than the other (as would be the case on ice or in a corner where the weight of the car lifts off the inside tire), and it applies the brakes to that wheel. By applying the brakes to the spinning wheel, the system makes the wheel with traction the "path of least resistance", so the open differential sends the power there rather than just wasting all the power spinning the other wheel.

All that being said, the main complaint about the EDLC systems is that it can result in additional brake usage and heat, but if you get to the point where that matters on the street, you should probably be worrying more about jail time or death than brake fade.

For a car that would see a lot of track time, the Mechanical LSD may be of some benefit, and I'm not saying NOT to get it... but being that both the LSD and DTC/EDLC are designed with the same goal in mind, I think you can skip the mechanical LSD for a street car if it's going to have the DTC/EDLC without losing much, if any, capability. Even many of the tests of the EDLC on the JCW have been quite positive in it's effectiveness in place of the mechanical LSD.

Again, I don't want to push people toward a certain option too strongly. I think the EDLC is effective... but then again I would have added the LSD, too, if I had the choice. Ultimately, it's a personal decision based on what one thinks they need and how effective they think the systems are, etc. So, hopefully this post has helped clarify the LSD vs. EDLC, how they work, etc, so people can make more educated decisions.

 

If I had the option, I'd get both. You'd be one of the few people to have both, so I say go for it if only for that reason. I love my mechanical LSD and the feel it provides. Only downside being, it doesn't have as much lock as I'd like.

 

LSD did not work well with the extra torque the JCW produced. So, the electronic EDLC (Electronic Differential Lock Control) was used instead.

 

I appreciate all the responses. I think with the type of driving I'll be doing the 500 for LSD could be spend somewhere else with more noticeable results... but on the other hand.....

Richard

 

You could add weight and complexity to your car for something you probably wont have any use for.

 

I have the LSD with the DTC and the car is a monster in the snow and wet conditions.
If I had to do it over I would do the exact same thing.
I have put over 30k miles on my car this last year and I knew I was going to so I wanted the best traction in all weather. I have it with the combo!

 

So Donkey's doing well, David?

Didn't you have something happen with the transmission a while back?

(Our MINIs were built the same week, if you remember... first week of DTC )

 

Yes, all is well! He developed a transmission leak at about 800 miles and BMW fixed it right away. Since the leak, not a single issue!

 

I'm intrigued by this. Looking at specing out a new MINI in the coming months. My recently departed '06 had LSD which was worthwhile, but invariably in snow if I forgot to defeat the DSC, the traction control and LSD fought each other mercilessly. Really hated that. So is the feel seemless... I'm assuming you run with full DTC correct?

Also, under more normal conditions, have you messed about with DTC off? I.e. what is the behavior of EDLC like in an LSD equipped car? I'm a little leary of specing the car this way, given my previous experiences.

 

I normally leave the DTC button untouched. The only time I do hit the button is when I want to be reminded of what the car is doing for me! With snow tires and DTC on you would never need to turn it off in bad weather. The car knows what it should do well before you know what it has done. I really must say that this set up is makes my Mini the best car I have ever driven in the snow and rain. Dry weather also creates no issues.
If you do get the combo you will not regret it.

If you shut the DTC/DSC off in the dry and stomp on it... SMOKE! Tires smoking that is. Leaving on is the best option because you are not worrying about it NOT having traction.