I just got my new Mini S manual this week, and this forum has already been very helpful about optimum shift points.

I'd appreciate some advice on downshifting. I've seen a post or two about the danger of hitting the redline when you downshift. But what are the general guidelines for downshifting - at what speeds can you downshift into 5th, 4th, 3rd and 2nd without damaging the engine?

Advice will be greatly appreciated!

Lee

 

I typically learn the car which I am driving. I start with the tachometer readouts, but I learn how the car sounds, moves, feels, etc. as I drive. Don't always have time to look at the tach when it may be required to down-shift and such.

But you asked for the numbers, not how to drive You should be able to determine this just by choosing your safe spot on the tach, up-shift at this point and record the RPM's the next gear is at before you continue to accelerate. Reverse the numbers and you have safe Down-shift points.

I'm sure someone has a list already compiled, too. They just haven't found this thread yet.

 

I have driven a stick all of three weeks but here is how I treat my car.

Regular driving I upshift and when I come to a light I leave it in gear until rpms are under 1k and put it in neutral.
To overtake someone on the highway, I drop to 4th, give it some gas and let out the clutch, then shift right back 4th-6th, skipping 5th. On a regular road I drop down one gear from whatever I am.
I take most 90 degree turns in 2nd (main street to side street turns). I use third if I take a turn faster than normal.

I shift into 2nd at about 18 (14-23) mph
3rd at like 35
4th at about 45

I use fourth if I am driving a constant speed below highway/busy road speed (<40mph)

4th will do 100mph before you redline and 80 before you really start to hear your car get mad, so after that it is not a problem. 5th and 6th are more or less interchangable at any speed.

 

Base it off how fast you are going. If you shift to 3rd at 45 then you know that you can down shift into second around 40 maybe a little less. Its up you to figure out what you are most confortable doing cause I willl say its ok to take a little over rediline but doing it to mucha nd you are going to blow a tranny or a motor

 

If I'm starting from 0, this is how fast I feel I can safely take the car in each gear:
1st to ~27
2nd to ~58
3rd to ~93
4th to ~120
5th tops out

I've only been driving stick a year, but isn't it not so great for your car to skip gears? IE 4th to 6th without 5th?

I'm not that good at downshifting to come to a stop, so I always just throw it in neutral.

Downshifting when trying to go faster is easier in the higher gears. I have no problem going from 6th to 5th to 4th to 3rd. But from 3rd to 2nd I always have to really take my time letting the clutch out or revmatch really high.

 

Just start out slow and get a feel for the transmission and engine. That's a good way of going about it. When you get to the point where you're not thinking but FEELING the car, you'll be golden. You'll be surprised how fast it will come to you.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with skipping gears.

 

+1.

All depends on what you are comfortable with and what you feel the car is doing. After a while, don't look down at the instruments anymore and always look up. Feel the speed and hear the engine rpm.

 

Do you actually shift at those numbers? If you do, you must get horrible gas mileage.

 

When I shift at those rpms, I have gotten 11.4 mpg

Other than poor mpgs, you will not damage the engine unless you money shift on the down shift. Redline is a little north of 6600 rpms where there is a severe dropoff in power from fuel cutoff anyway.

 

Not on a daily basis! Really only when I'm trying to go fast.

I was just telling the OP what I can get up to in each gear because he was asking what gears he could downshift to depending on speed.

Driving normally I shift between 2k and 3k, I have a total overall mpg average of 36.1 in the 16000 miles I have driven my car.

 

Don't overlook rev matching or you'll polish your clutch into oblivion in very short order. Another thing to keep in mind; brake pads are a lot easier and cheaper to replace than the clutch.

 

Thanks for all the interesting advice ...now I just have to figure out what works best and what the hell fly 'n brick is talking about ... does rev matching have anything to do with religion?

 

You better make it your religion if want to save money by not buying a new clutch and synchros.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong (as I am not a regular manual driver), but "rev matching" is when you are going 'xx' mph at let's say 3000rpms in 3rd gear, which is the same speed you reach at 4200rpms in 2nd gear, then you should bring the rpms up to 4200 when you downshift to 2nd from 3rd before releasing the clutch, right?

 

This video can be a little boring, but it has taught me a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7bb2OKFKgc

 

Rather than shifting based on speed, shift based on revs. I never let my revs drop below 2000 when I'm moving and I generally shift up at 4000rpms unless I'm getting on an interstate highway. I'll then run it up close to redline before I shift up. If I get up to traffic speed before getting into 6th I'll go from 3rd or 4th to 6th. There are no worries missing any of the gears when going up or down.

 

From the first book of Revolutions Chapter 3 Verse 1:

"Doest not destroy thy clutch before its alloted time."

Rev matching is the fine art of 'blipping' the throttle while the clutch is dis-engaged to match the engine speed to the shaft speed. By doing this, unwarranted friction is reduced or mitigated alltogether during the down shift process. Down shifting is really only needed when driving agressively into a tight turn where breaking, heal and toe down shifting are all done at the same time so as to be in a lower gear for stability, higher torque and a rapid exit from turn. For ordinary slowing down, use the brakes. Its a lot cheaper in the long run even though down shifting sounds really cool if you've got the exhaust for it.

 

just don't downshift north of 4000rpm and you should be fine, and at which point, you should really know how to rev-match before gearing down at such high RPMs.
I can't imagine how the clutch feels when you downshift from 3rd to 2nd at high RPMs without rev-matching.

if you're unsure at first, practice downshifting at lower RPMs (2000rpm ish) and work on perfecting rev-match. the rest will come naturally.

 

what does your 5th top out at? i hit 146, is that about right?

 

On the speedo it says about 140, but the GPS says 127.

Since you have the S, it's limited to 139.

 

lol, not mine!

 

As was said, don't downshift when the tachometer reads > 4,000 rpm. For street, I can't think of a situation where you would need to.

General rule for the street, downshift when the tach reads < 2,000 rpm. Or, <2,500 when you want to accelerate hard or go up a grade.

Don't bother downshifting to slow the car. Not much benefit to it on the street, unless it is to maintain speed down a long grade.

Rev matching: get a feel for about how many revs the different gears are apart. When downshifting, put in the clutch and increase the engine revs by about that much before shifting into the higher gear. This doesn't have to be exact. You are just reducing long-term wear on the synchromesh.

 

You may want to take a car control clinic or DE course, Rev matching, or Heel and Toe (You actually use your heel and the side of your foot) as some of us older guys will tell you is a ART, and if you Master it, you will prolong the life of your Engine,Trans and brakes, let alone your wallet. Being able to downshift all the way from 6th to 1st coming to a light without bucking the car, or making your passengers head move like a bobble head is something that takes some practice, I am sure all the track guys out there will agree, Slow into the turn and Fast out of it, you need to be in the right grear to do that, so you are braking, clutching and blipping the gas all at once on the downshift. Nice and Smooooooth!!!