The same could be said for the so-called 'Hitler mustache' -- "it's not a hair style that stood for hate" -- but see how far wearing that on your face gets you in eastern Europe.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what slaves (40% of the confederate states' population) thought as well -- symbol for liberty, resistance to authority, self determination...
(do you honestly not see how ridiculous you sound writing something that full of BS and ignorance?)

Both of you... I don't care what you put on your car. It's a free country, do what you want to it. But don't take a dump in my hand and try to tell me it's licorice.

 

You are generalizing and making it far to simplistic, that can be said about the entire country up until 1861, so I guess any US flag prior to 1861 stands for slavery. Also the civil war did nothing to change the hatred and bigotry in America at the time, that was very much equal in North and South states. In fact there are many documented cases of the overall treatment of blacks in the South was superior to that of the North.

The reason the south stood for slavery had nothing to do with hatred or bigotry it was simply because of economics.

 

Oh, well that changes everything

 

Fishbert lets refrain from the comparison to **** germany to the CSA. Lets keep this informational.

 

Actually a fairly large portion of slaves in the south fully supported the Confederacy, again you'd be surprised at how little slavery had to do with the war. Not that they'd fly the flag now, but thats mainly do to the misinformation spread.

Saying the Civil War was about slavery is like saying the we invaded Iraq because of WMDs.

Honestly the ignorance is all yours.

 

Greg keep in mind that the union also used slavery for 70 years before the CSA was established, bizarre is it not?
If anything the US flag is far more insulting than the Confedrate flag.

Jack

 

Truth is hard to face I know.

But seriously all the anti confederate flag sentiment here is being fueled by fairy tales and ignorance, I'm just trying to approach it from an objective stand point. Hell I'm born and raised in NYC, and have no personal stake here. History isn't always pretty, but it always has its rational, there is no absolute right or wrong, as much as American History during the 20th century liked to teach us there is. I have to respect the OP, and judge him fairly for his views.

 

great! so as long as tennessee keeps a history book attached to the top of his mini and continuously preaches our ignorance at stop lights we'll be good. no one offended, no harm done. You have just single handedly cured the stigma of southern flag. but lets just say, in the rare, unlikely situations where he is unable to do so, some people (we'll call them ignorant for your arguments sake) will be offended. this is all purely hypothetical of course.

 

Wow, I missed a busy night on the board!

I noticed nobody has referred to the Civil War as "The War of Northern Agression" yet, so I thought I'd just throw that out there.

I'm too tired to really think about this right now, I may live in Florida, but I was raised in Northern Ohio, so I really have to think about this.

In the mean time:

 

Such a comparison would be overly simplistic to the point of being silly. It is not a comparison that I ever made.

The comparison that I did make was between a flag and a mustache for the purposes of illustrating the point that society at large does not generally turn back the clock on perception of symbols that have been usurped by hate groups -- a claim that JudgeS seemed to be arguing in favor of.

Oh, and this thread hasn't been informational going all the way back to the very first post.

Saying that I said anything about the Civil War is like saying WWII was about Hitler's mustache.

My point, in a nutshell, has been that you may think the confederate flag is a symbol of "yay, south!", but when a vast majority of the public view it as being a symbol for something starkly different, you're just pissing in the wind.

So, with the belief that I have cleared up the misinformation regarding what I said, I'm done playing in the mud of this thread.

 

ironic the car's name is Jim...

 

I aught to put an American flag from the 1920s on my vehicle.

How come all these history lovers can't put other flags? I'm just saying...

 

Yikes, I thought I read the entire thread... but I only read up to the seventh post... stupid Internet...

Anyway, I am no history buff, but I'm sure the reason only "94%" of the South owned slaves is that nobody else had a need for them. You think small town farmers needed them, or people who worked in towns? Enormous plantations probably owned a good chunk of slaves, and those were run by families, no?

But you know what? Who cares about history? I don't give a rat's nalgas that the war wasn't fought for slavery. I don't even care if it was really fought because Abe Lincoln had a pesky hemorrhoid itching his behind.

Because you know what? That fact of the matter is, his vehicle will be at a significantly increased risk for vandalism. Plain and simple. Heck, if I was a young vandal (which they are EVERYWHERE, but I'm a Fed, so don't worry about me!), I would rather attack Little MINI's Confederate Flag rather than the Altima next to it. Come on, use some sense!

And, yes, no matter what you say on this message board, it's populace is relatively diminutive compared to the rest of the continental United States. Convince us however you please, but you still have the rest of the great United States.

 

The US Government of the 2nd half of the 20th Century never feared revolution from the southern states. One could say that they actually caused a revolution -- a social revolution.

Yes, the Civil War was an economic war between industrialized states and agricultural states. The industrial states of the north were using their power and wealth to impose conditions on the agro states that were to the advantage of the north. The southern states got fed up with it.

The slavery thing was an afterthought for the north. Lincoln didn't put forth the first order of the Emancipation Proclamation until 1862, and that was a typical Washington gesture that had no real effect but looked good to Lincoln's political base. It only freed slaves in Confederate states that were not controlled by the Union. No slaves were freed in Union controlled states by the 1862 executive order.

The government didn't teach us that the Confederate flag was a symbol of hate. The KKK took care of that without government assistance.

You can find the truth, if you look. PBS had a program not long ago on the real cause of the Civil War. There are many books on the subject.

So, why did you say the government did it?

Huh? A few men? It was a pretty big war.

They couldn't do it then, either. They lost, remember?

The only reason you can't do it now is because there aren't many others who would want to join you.

What makes you think that? I would bet that if you took a Confederate flag around the world and asked people what it meant, the three most common answers would be:

1. I don't know.
2. Dukes of Hazard TV show.
3. American racism.

Is it a government conspiracy, or a media conspiracy?

I think most people are very aware that the burning cross is as much a part of the KKK image as the white sheets and Confederate flag.

 

I actually considered putting a version of this flag on my MINI:

 

Being American we have certain inalienable rights. If you want to put a Rebel flag on you car thats your choice. I can assume that your car will be damaged especially if you hang around a place like SF.
The rebel flag has become a symbol of intolerance, slavery, ignorance and HATRED. It stood for a divided country who supported the idea they were superior to other race's of people. These are things I would never want to be associated with, let alone do I think belong on a MINI..
You want to do it for attention? Youll get it, I can definetly see you car getting fire bombed by the NAACP, or the SF federation of Gays a Lesbians, Heck, even business people may participate, Rebel flags have no place on a MINI roof.
If you want people not to respect you, go ahead paste it with the traitor flag. my 10 cts.
I go to work and I defend the proper 1 and only RED WHITE an BLUE flag the one with 50 stars, the fact that people still think the South will rise again is absurd.
If you want a flag, you never go wrong with a AMerican flag

 

JudgeS, your slanted and biased views on slavery and the Civil War are almost embarrassing. But the biggest issue I have with you in this thread is that you are missing the entire point.

It's not about the OP's right to put anything on his MINI he wishes. Of course, he can.

It's about how others perceive it. Not him. Not you. Others. And despite your incorrect opinion that NObody in Tennessee could possibly construe that as anything other than acceptable, I assure you, you are wrong. You might be right if there were only ten people in that state. But, sorry, there's a few more.

He might be able to own that MINI with the Rebel flag on it for ten years and not have so much as a single slashed tire. But then again, it might be totally trashed in two months. It's all about playing the odds though. If you think the odds of being vandalized are not raised by displaying that flag on the roof, you are being deluded by your pride of the South.

 

This thread really puts in a nutshell that when there is any discussion re politics, religion. special interest groups "rights", there is what is right (my point of view) and what is wrong (everyone elses %&$^ up view).


Motor on

 

Lest we forget thet the entire US practiced the dispicable thing called slavery, the Civil War was fought over economics and Lincoln made a military move to disrupt the work force in the south helping the North to win the war. Thankfully in the end slavery which had been practiced sense biblical times was abolished....God does work in mysterious ways. As a proud southerner the Confederate flag represents the good things we had here not slavery! I say if you want to put it on your Mini just do it.

 

So much judgment and ignorance all over this thread. If the man wants to put a Confederate flag on his Mini, what business is it of anyone else?

 

For you to say which side of the debate ignorance falls on is no greater point than for any of us have made in this thread. You feel ignorance lies with those of us who feel he's taking a risk by putting such a contraversial symbol on his car (how ANYone can possibly refute that is beyond me... I'm not talking about it being right or wrong, I'm talking about the inherent RISK).

And those of you who are agreeing with your position largely live in the same part of the country as you.

Coincidence ?

 

That was a really lame thing to say.

 

For the record, the rebel flag was never an official flag of the Confederacy. Yes, The Stars and Bars are a part of our history, but this thread isn't about The Stars and Bars:



There is a very interesting debate going on here, but it's not about the reasons behind the Civil War. This is all about whether it's wise to put emotional symbols on an easy target. I am a Massachusetts resident, straight as an arrow, and as left-wing progressive as it gets. I have always enjoyed reading about the old South, and have always felt that the shameful mark of slavery is part of a shared history. Having said that, I personally don't feel any strong emotional response when I see a car painted like the General Lee. I would take a picture, and start a conversation with the owner! However, there are so many people (read: punks) that are just looking for a reason to make trouble, no matter where you live. I am a huge fan of controversial historical figures, but I won't be applying a portrait of Ernesto "Che" Guevara to the roof of my MINI!

If this debate were about the freedom to do this, well then... There's no debate! We are (except for the "Patriot" act) still a free nation. This is about whether it's smart (I don't know) or whether it will attract at least some unwanted attention (it most definitely will).

 

As a retired member of the military, I find that comment highly insulting.

 

By the way, have any of you ever seen the episode of BBC's Top Gear when they took a road trip through the deep South in cars painted with gay slogans? It was hilarious...