What's up peps? I picked up my red and white beauty today and may I say she is so fine, handles like a dream(except), feels much bigger on the inside then appears. On to my question, I took her up to some of the best roads around my house in woodside and she started to let the rear end loose after hard exeleration out of the corner, has anyone else noticed the MCs's tendency to loose the rear end totally instead of the wheels schreaching and letting you know what's going on? Also to those who have done shocks, springs, sway bar and upper struts what has been the increase in handling after the new set up.

S sport package

 

hmmm, you say you HAVE the Sport package? Do you have DSC? If so, you should not have rear end sliding at all...

 

Might be the brand new tires? I hear it takes about 300 miles to wear off the "glaze" and make them sticky. (my term, BTW)

I took Tillie to a BMW Car Control Clinic a couple of weeks ago and tried and tried to get her to spin. Couldn't do it. (Even with the DSC off.) The instructors (three diff guys) all said if you want to break the rear end loose on one of these, you gotta use the handbrake. Pretty much the only way.

 

Not True! I've done it millions of time while attempting to perfect my Speedy Parallel Parking Skill! oops shouldn't have said that.

 

Yep, got the DSC and still have sliding, I think LombardStreet got it right because when I put nee tires on the gixxer or the duc I don't push them hard for a little while and I did it right away.

 

I drive my MC with gusto,don't speed, I smell the roses at home.
The back end of this car follows along just fine IMO:smile:

 

Hmmph, that didn't happen to mine that I remember, but at least you now know what it is!

 

I highly recommend a high performance driving school. There are usually several autocross schools at the beginning of each season as well - check out your local SCCA region as well as the BMWCCA chapter for your area.


The car inherently pushes unless you are doing some serious throttle lift oversteer maneuvers. Take the car to a local event, and explore the limits and dynamic changes safely

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Back to basics. Check tire pressure and make sure tires and sway bar, end links ect. are attached securely. as was said new tires are a little greasy.

When in doubt power out!

 

>Might be the brand new tires?


I would say so too.

 

It would have to be the brand new tires. But that's still odd that the dsc wouldn't kick in and prevent you from sliding.(which that is it's job in the 1st place) I didn't get the sport package on my S but even without the dsc and the traction off I still can't get the back end to slide out. I went 45-50 around an almost 90 degree curve with no tires sliding. The only way I can get it around even a little is on gravel. And I had to cut the wheel pretty hard for the back end to slide out. I had a loner for several hours a couple of weeks back and it was equipped with dsc. It was raining that day so I was curious as to how good the it worked. Down the road from my Mini dealership there is a road that they take you on for a test drive and it has like 4 to 5 really sharp curves, almost complete turns so I sped up around them and the dsc came on on 2 of the 5 curves. I could feel it slowing the front end down a little as I was sliding into the other lane slightly. But it kept me right on track. I guess on concrete roads with a smoother finish you could probally get it to slide pretty easy without dsc but with it sliding like that and the dsc on, I would kinda keep an eye on that.

 

Hmmm. Good point!

I have heard reports of DSC problems. I think it was a thread I read on mini2.com - I guy with DSC went around an off-camber roundabout (in England) and suddenly spun out. Someone else posted something to the effect of, "You know, the same thing happened to me!" Apparently, there's a "lateral acceleration" sensor in the system that can get seriously confused on an off-camber turn. Force vectors pointing out the side windows instead of the floor of the car, something like that.

Your turn wasn't by any chance an off-camber turn, was it? (IE, banked in the wrong direction.)

And BTW, I second what RandyBMC said about driver's schools. My local BMW CCA (Car Club of America) chapter (Sacramento Valley) doesn't do much in the way of performance driving events, but the next chapter west of me (Golden Gate Chapter) does, in a very big way. Ten autocrosses a year, track days at Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, and Sears Point raceways, several Car Control Clinics (including special ones for teens only). A great opportunity to see what your car will do in a safe, controlled, and legal fashion. And as someone else pointed out in another thread, most of these events cost less than one speeding ticket!

Anyone else going to be at Laguna Seca on Monday? (2/7/05)

 

I'm going to Laguna. We'll see what kind of controlled sliding we can pull on the Andretti Hairpin for sure!
See ya there.
Skottoman

 

Are you sure you arent braking or unevenly throttling during the cornering?? This will bring the rear out. When you go around corners you need to keep it smooth, or your weight distribution is all over the place, even when accelerating. You really dont need fancy springs and shocks to corner well in this car, nothing can beat it out of the box.

 

^ what he said.

 

The car is actually easy to slide, if you know how to do it. Especially downhill. I forgot to mention that may have contributed to first posters experience.

 

I don't know what you were driving before the Mini, but all the Mini have very stiff suspension compared to basically every other (stock) car on the road. And you may be running runflats, which have stupid stiff sidewalls. Cars with stiff suspensions handle and corner better, but tend to be friskier at the limits, meaning that when one end of the car looses traction, it happens very fast. Tires with stiff sidewalls make it even worse, and tend to squeal a lot less. All of that is gross generalization which a forum bully could probably poke lots of trite holes in, but it's all roughly accurate.

I have noticed some slightly odd behavior from my Mini at "colder" autocrosses. I run "r-compound" tires for the autocross, and on these cold days, the fronts apparently heat up significantly faster than the rears (which only makes sense). This has led to several eye-popping slides, and some spins. On warm days, I don't have this problem, probably because the rear tires are warm enough from the air temp to work 'enough' to keep the rear end behind me.

You could have been experiencing something along those lines, or even perhaps the mold release on the front tires wore off quicker than the rears, temporarily leaving you with 'slick' rear tires and sticky front ones (if this is true, then once the rear tires are scrubbed in, it shouldn't happen again).

Anyhow, be careful with that thing And go to a closed track for the fun stuff, if at all possible

 

After reading this thread for the last couple of days,took my MC out for a motor today to try and get the back end to come around.I have ASC,no DSC,snow tires,and today the blacktop had some freezing rain coming down on it.
I really had to try hard to get the back end to break loose.And only then on snow covered roads,with ASC turned off,and throttle to the mats.Off camber or not did not make a difference.I have lots of deserted places to play,no trees making blind corners,so if I do drift I know nothing is going to be in the way except the ditches,which I had no problem staying between.
Now working the E-brake is a whole other story.Go hard to the corner,snap the brake up,turn hard,throttle up smooth,break the back loose,release the brake,and GO in the new direction

 

I drive 84 every day for work, (I live up on Stadler, near 84 and Skyline). There are times when I drive the snot out of my car and I've been doing these hills in a Mini for just shy of 30 months. In all my driving, I've only had the rear slide in throttle lift with a decreasing radius, wet patches, or very cold tires (and these are Toyo Proxis T1-Ss). It's not just the runflats. I have gotten the car to slide without the DSC coming on, but it's only been with very, very gentle onset of four wheel drift. I guess the computer just can't figure out anything better to do.

It's good to see more Minis up here. They're perfect for these hills. I'm in a neighborhood of about 80 homes. I was the first one over two years ago. Now there are three for sure, and I think I've seen two more join the flock recently. The number that go up and down 84 is growing. I wonder how many of the Minis end up here in CA?

Matt

 

err, so much for kindly breaking-in the car

 

rear end sliding in the mini is TYPICALLY the result of a very stiff rear sway bar (ive had first hand experience), recently rotated tires (again, first hand), or a combination of both (again, first hand!)

ive never had the rear end come around in the mini before i put on a h-sport sway bar in the middle setting... and even then i had the brakes on and intentionally did it...

unless you were doin left-foot braking and loading the front and making the rear light then i really can't tell why....

 

There are volumes written on why cars handle the way that they do, and I could never do them justice, so I'll resort to another gross generalization . . . FWD's do not have throttle-on oversteer tendencies (which is what you describe by taking a corner with the throttle matted). Of course, it CAN happen, but it is usually the result of really bad driving or traction issues of one kind or another - freezing rain for example

FWD's (all cars, actually) are prone to lift-throttle oversteer to varying degrees, and the Mini is no exception. Typically, as you are approaching a corner, you'll brake mostly in a straight line, and then begin to turn in as you release pressure on the brakes. When you are all the way off the brakes, you roll onto the throttle. Should you happen to decide you're going to fast, and lift the throttle, you transfer weight off of the rear wheels, giving them less traction. If they were already approaching their cornering limit when you lifted the throttle, the car will begin to oversteer.

My Civic with NO rear swaybar will do this, and my stock-besides-the-tires Mini will do it, too. Of course, if you are not cornering near the traction limit of the rear tires, lifting the throttle may not do anything noticeable other than tighten up your line.

 

I agree, one of the worst things you can do is get off throttle to fast in a turn,smooth release will give better control than lifting right off,ya might as well have an e-brake for the fronts only