Shifting my 2003 MCs has gotten progressively harder this past week. At first it was subtle, so I thought it must be my imagination. But now it's clear. I increasingly have to shove it into gear, and sometimes it doesn't want to go in at all.

The clutch was replaced a few years ago, and I think it's still in good shape. With the car off and the clutch depressed I can shift through all gears normally and easily. And if I put it in sixth with the car running at idle, it will immediately stall.

I took a look at the clutch hydraulics, but I don't see anything leaking. The reservoir is full, and the master cylinder connections and pedal are dry. I got under the car and checked out the slave cylinder, but it's perfectly dry as well (even under the boot).

It doesn't look like the hydraulics have failed, and I can't figure how air would have gotten in, but I guess it's time to bleed the slave cylinder and hope that fixes it. I've bled the brakes and clutch on my MG many times; but after reading how how tricky bleeding the slave is supposed to be on this car, I was really hoping not to have to.

So I figured I'd check with the great sages of NAM before I tried bleeding it. Any other ideas?

 

If the car shifts fine with the car off, the linkages are fine....
And if the fluid level in the master has always been full, it could not have sucked in air if the master and slave are OK...
No hints if leakage around them? And changes of sounds as you use the clutch...car off...
It IS possible one of them has failed internally...to picture it, think of a piston with an o-ring to seal it...if the o-ring fails/leaks/tears, the fluid can leak around it....
I might try pumping it a few times...like 20-30 times in quick succession, then trying to use it...see if it feels different...same goes for pushing it in faster than normal to see if it works better...if leaking internally, or has an airbuble, it might suddenly work for a few moments after "exercising" it....
How many miles since the clutch was done? While some folks can get 180,000 miles, mostly highway, some folks can use one up in 30,000+ (or less) if in heavy traffic or have bad habits...

 

Thanks for the reply, ZippyNH.

There's no hint of leakage around any of the hydraulics. And there's no unusual sound while using the clutch with the car on or off. Pumping the pedal doesn't seem to change anything.

I had considered the possibility of one of the hydraulic cylinders leaking internally, or maybe even that the hydraulic line swelling; but this is obviously difficult to determine.

The clutch was replaced about 35,000 miles ago. I've only owned the car for the last 10,000 miles. My friend, the previous owner, drove 100,000 miles on the original clutch before it started slipping.

I'm pretty gentle on the clutch in general - I don't ride it, or rest my foot on the pedal - so I'm inclined to say the clutch is OK.

I will say this though, the clutch was not replaced by a Mini shop - and they had a hard time bleeding the system. It was so hard to shift that my friend had to bring it back to them to re-bleed twice. Eventually they manged it alright, but ever since then it has had a random hard shift once every few days (usually in first or third). Pumping the pedal would resolve this problem - so I had guessed there was still some air in the line (though it wasn't generally a problem and I wasn't anxious to try bleeding it myself).

But beyond all this, I have some odd news to report - the problem seems to have mostly gone away. I don't know what to attribute this to, and am still apprehensive.

Thinking about what might have changed, the only thing I can think of is that the shifting was bad when it was cold out. But we're talking about California cold (maybe 40 degrees), not real cold - so I didn't initially consider this. Do you think the outside temperature could be a factor?

 

I think the tell might be that you have random hard shifts fixed by a quick pump....
Maybe it was Never Fully bleed....and has a bit of air left...might be with trying....30,000 miles is pretty short...
The viscosity of brake fluid does change a tiny bit in cool weather...but dot4 is pretty thin, so I doubt temp made much of a difference....
Any idea what else was replaced when the clutch was done? With 130,000+ miles, if the couch forks, etc were not swapped out....might be giving you issues...but that would be done if the couch is changed AGAIN...sometimes a budget clutch can gone back to bite ya...

 

By reading the description of the problem, it sounds like your in need of a new clutch again. Typically as the clutch wears, the diaphragm springs on the pressure plate need to be pushed further, the clutch slave/master take up the slack, but eventually you get to a point where the springs get harder and harder to press.

When shifting the trans with the engine turned off, you are not dealing with drag on the clutch while changing gears, this is why you are able to easily shift gears.

What is puzzling is that you said that they had to re-bleed it twice. Typically air in the system would make the pedal spongy and not hard. It might even let the pedal drop to the floor then have to be pulled back up.

To be honest, it sounds like maybe they installed the clutch backwards. I have seen this before, but I would think you would have other problems if that were the case. Other than that, was your friend a lead foot? There are a lot of unanswered questions in this thread.

 

ZippyNH, I think the random hard shifts in the past were almost certainly the result of a bit of air in the system. What caused my more recent and consistent hard shifts is less clear.

I don't know exactly what was done in the course of replacing the clutch, but they are a competent shop and it was not cheap. I'll see if I can get some paperwork from them. (I do hope they replaced the forks!)

 

Brutal-Force, thanks for your input. I am familiar with the way a clutch wears, and how it will eventually get harder to press until it no longer works.

And as you say, shifting with the car off should be easy - unless something is binding, the clutch is hopelessly worn, or the throwout bearing is truly shot (something that happened in my MG).

To be clear, the shop re-bled the system multiple times when they replaced the clutch - which was perhaps three years ago. Since that time the pedal has always had decent feel, with the only bad symptom being occasional hard shifts (which could clearly be indicative of a small air bubble).

I sincerely doubt they installed the clutch backwards, and my friend was generally quite gentle with the car. I'm not sure what other questions are unanswered, but I'm happy to provide any information you think might be useful.

 

The throw-out bearing fork doesn't get changed typically. Its pretty much just a solid piece of metal that doesn't really wear. A bearing would be making a lot of noise before it became this sort of a problem.

You are correct, if there were just a small air bubble and it might compress and you wold have to double pump to make the clutch release. By "random hard shift" you mean you had to push the clutch in twice? Or does it mean you couldn't shift into gear? or Both?

I would have to see the clutch to make the call as to weather it was installed backwards, but believe me with some cars, its easy to do. Not having installed a Mini Clutch, I will temper my comments with quite a few Audi Clutches (can be installed both ways), and Chevy clutches which in some cases cannot be installed both ways. Looking at the Mini Clutches, they look similar to an Audi Clutch, so its possible it can be installed either way.