hello all

have a '03 MCS, 37K miles, dealer serviced since I bought it in July '07. The temp gauge has never gone above the halfway mark, even when sitting in traffic on the highway for 45 minutes in high summer.

Had the coolant system serviced at the dealership two weeks back, and on Thursday night it overheated while waiting in line after only ten minutes. I shut it off as soon as I saw the temp gauge was pegged, but to be honest due to the vehicle never having had any cooling issues at all prior to this I wasn't exactly bird-******* the gauge the whole time while in line....

Anyways, after the steam had subsided and a 30-minute wait, I fired it back up and it drove fine, temp gauge was normal etc., and I dropped it back off at the dealership this morning with a stern letter telling them how pissed I am.

So what are the chances that this overheating has done permanent damage to the engine? Are the R53's easily damaged in this way, or are they fairly tough? Or can I expect a host of warped-head issues for the foreseeable future?

Any advice appreciated, as I may have to go the legal route if the dealership does not cooperate.

cheers

greg v.

 

Play nice with the dealer you at this point do not want to be black flagged. If its running fine your good to go have them bleed the system of air again. Its ok to let them know your upset but play the game and this will go better for you and the Mini.

 

What do you mean the "temp gauge was pegged"? Was the needle at the 250*F region? Was there steam coming out from the engine bay? And was the coolant temp warning light triggered?

If you thought the engine was over-heating and shut it off to let it cool down, you did the right thing. Was the coolant at the specified level?

If the head is already warped (or slightly warped), the head gasket will be busted soon. Oil and coolant will mix... check the coolant expansion tank and oil dipstick regular. The color to look for is foamy peanut butter. If the leak is small enough, you may not see it but you might smell it... ie sweet coolant smell coming out of the tail pipes.

Assuming your dealer is honest/reliable, ask the service manager if the ECM keeps track of Maximum temp reading as it does Max RPM, Max speed, etc.

Also keep in mind that there's only ONE radiator fan in the Mini, so don't drive if it's dead. The fan has 2 speeds (Low / High speed). There have been cases where the Low speed relay is fried and the fan only kicks in at the higher temperature.

Edited:
A sure way of checking for cross-contamination is to send a sample of the used oil to Blackstone or Dyson for analysis. It costs $20-$30 and the analysis will give much more information of what's going on inside your engine... metal wear, fuel dilution, acid level, etc. And if there's cross-contamination, you would then have hard evidence to talk with the dealer.

 

hi guys

yup, the gauge was pegged, the light was on, and steam was coming out of everywhere.

just talked to the service rep, and the cooling fan was unplugged, as I suspected. They do not seem eager to take responsibility for doing this, however I have pointed out the obvious, i.e. that it must have been them because it has never overheated before, ever. I will be talking to the head of the service dept. later, and see what he has to say.

I will also bring up the max. temp reading, and see if the ecu logged it, and of course I will be keeping an eye on any cross-contamination issues.

cheers

greg v.

 

As one who services multimillion dollar pieces of equipment for a living I can tell you for a fact that technicians can and do forget to reconnect or plug in something. It happens to the best of them.

If you did not touch the plug yourself since the day it was serviced, then it's obvious the technician that serviced your car likely forgot it. You had the coolant system serviced by them, the responsibility and repairs lie with your service center. I would fight that tooth and nail.

Good luck and let us know how it works out!

 

Sorry to hear about this incident. Leaving the engine and radiator fan unplugged during your last service is definitely a huge oversight in their part. I have learned my self to try to go over the with a fine tooth comb after it is returned to me from service.

If you can prove that their mechanic forgot to plug the radiator fan, they will have to make themselves liable for any repairs from this point on.

 

I think it may be even simpler than that; at the last service interval, they performed a cooling system service, which included flushing the system and refilling it. I would assume that by definition of the term "service" they would also have checked to ensure that the cooling system was performing within specification. A non-operative cooling fan would, I think, constitute a fault, and thus a failure on their part to perform said service.

I hope that the service manager will see it this clearly, but who knows. At the end of the day all I am asking of them is that they cover any repairs obviously related to the overheating in the future.

Objectively, I am not without blame either; normally I would keep a close eye on my vehicle's temp gauge, especially when stopped in traffic, and while I do check the temp gauge frequently when driving I have gotten into the habit of not checking it as often when stopped. However, due to the fact that my Mini's gauge has never ever gone above half, I just don't look at it as much as I should.

Here's another question; since my car will "chime" at me several times as the ambient temp nears freezing to warn me of potential ice, could they not have included a chime to let you know that your engine is about to cook?

gv

 

The dash temp gauge in the R53 looks nice but it is, for the most part, useless. It functions pretty much like your low oil pressure idiot light....When there is not a single drop of oil left in the engine, the thing lights up. Same with this water temp gauge...When the system is starved of coolant, then it triggers it. In both instances, the alarms go off when it is too late.

Case in point: My radiator fan low speed setting had not been working for a very long time. My engine and A/C compressor were running extremely hot because there was simply no thermo compensation from the low speed fan setting (The fan was running in emergency mode high speed all the freaking time). You would think the water temp gauge would register the higher under hood temperatures...No dice my friend!

2 Sundays ago, after pulling up to a parking space and turning off the car, I immediately noticed a cloud of white smoke coming from everywhere in the front end. Turns out that the A/C compressor self destructed itself, had a rubbing hole in the A/C high pressure pipe line. The A/C compressor failure was compounded by the fact that the radiator low speed setting was not working and huge pressures inside the compressor ultimately killed it.

During the whole ordeal, the temp gauge needle did not even move from the middle position.....

$1,600 later out of pocket (Out of warranty), new radiator fan assembly, new A/C compressor and high pressure line.

The radiator fan failure in these cars is well documented. You would think dealers would check to make sure (Easily done with a Scan tool) that the low and high speed settings are operational when cars come in to service, right?

Not a chance!

My warranty ended in December and my A/C self destruct (Due to the failed radiator fan) 2 weeks ago.

I learned my lesson. Keep watching the radiator fan like a hawk and replace the minute the low speed fan setting stops working. It is much cheaper to replace a $300 part than it is to do a $1,600 repair.

 

thanks for all the responses & info guys.

DaveTinNY, I agree; I didn't see your post until just now.

So how does one check to see that both modes of the rad fan are working? I can't say that I've ever even been aware of the cooling fan being on at all.

cheers

greg v.

 

When the low speed radiator fan fails you will only hear the fan in full high speed practically all the time (because the engine's temp is not being thermocompensated accordingly).

You need a scan gauge tool to properly verify functionality of the low speed fan setting. Often, failure of the fan to turn on in low speed is diagnosed this way.

 

If you know your fan or fan relays are malfunctioning and the coolant temp is higher than normal, turn on the heater with the blower at full blast. This should help keep the coolant temp till you get home or to a garage.

Btw, lower your windows unless you want a sauna session.

 

Scan Gauge II, cheap insurance for your cars motor. It lets you monitor a lot of the cars vitals that the regular gauges dont tell you.

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles...I may have good news.

The temperature gauge is designed, to move immediately from the center to full hot (red led lit in gauge) when the engine temperature reaches 120⁰C; otherwise it will remain in the middle when the Engine is warm and the ECT is less than 120⁰C.

This is probably why you did not notice it creeping up, because it did not. Due to this instant action, the driver is alerted before it is too late! Normally the temp will not go above 112⁰C since this is where high speed kicks in; when everything is working, the temp will not get past 106 ⁰C (unless the A/C is on) since low speed kicks in at 105⁰C.

While not desirable, a short excursion as you have described will likely not leave any marks. Low speed comes on at 105⁰C and goes off when the temperature falls by 4⁰C.
Good Luck and I hope this helps.