Hi all. I bought a new 07 MCS fairly early in the spring of 07 and promptly took to AMVIV. Now a few months shy of 4 years and 67K miles later I've got a serious problem with the car that I have had since very early on, but did not realize it was such a serious problem.

Early on my timing chain tensioner (the oil pressurized piston that keep the chain tensioned) totally failed. My car was towed to the dealer and the tensioner, chain and I believe the whole assembly was replaced with a new improved version. I was told that the early build 07 MCSs had problems with this tensioner and that this would fix it.

AFTER this replacement I started to experience, very intermittently, what is variously referred to as dieseling, death rattle, or the cold start issue. Now that I look I see a long threads here on NAM and at MINI2. There are also 3 articles on MotoringFile with a lot of comments, and several You Tube posts showing the problem. Basically your engine sounds like someone dropped a bag of rocks on top of the valves when you start it. Some times it lasted a very short time and some times it lasted a couple minutes. In my case there was no pattern to its occurence - it didn't matter if the weather was hot or cold or whether the car had sat overnight or for a week. Everytime I brought the car in for service and some times I brought it in just for this issue I asked them to look at the issue. At various times I was told this was normal and I was always told that the techs could not duplicate the problem even when I left it with them for several days. All these requests are documented on my service invoices over 3 years.

Finally, now that the car is out of warranty the dealer has duplicated the problem. And by my reading of the various posts I see that the noise is being attributed to timing chain tensioner problems, that some owners have had there tensioners, chains, sprockets, etc. replaced multiple times and the problem has returned. I also see where Mini has replaced heads, valves, and even entire engines for some owners. From my reading it appears that MINI has not yet come up with a permanent fix for this problem. And it is a serious problem since some owners have had engines destroyed when the timing chain jumped or broke and the valves and pistons collided.

Therefore my questions are multifold?

1) Are there other Colorado MINI owners who have had this problem out of warranty and did MINI do anything for them?

2) Are there other Colorado MINI owners who have had multiple tensioners/chains replaced and then the problem returned?

3) I see posts were owners of 07, 08, 09, and 10 MINIs are having this problem. Does anyone know if the problem was solved for 11 and/or 12 models?

I ask the third question because I'm thinking that perhaps MINI will not pay for this repair out of warranty even though I've had it repaired once and complained about it for, seemingly, ever, but perhaps MINI would offer me a credit for a new purchase or an inflated trade. HOWEVER, if they haven't solved this problem on the new models I'm not buying another one even though it's the most fun car I've owned and it offers a great balance of performance with great fuel economy. I've test driven the new MCS and I really like the way the traction control nearly eliminates torque steer. It feels much more like the previous generation MINI -which is a good thing.

Still, if they won't do anything for me or haven't fixed this problem I guess a new Mustang is in my future.

Thanks in advance for any feedback you all can provide.

 

Hi,
Sorry your having problems with your 07. It appears from you post you had a major repair done for this issue early by the dealer.

I suggest you work with the local dealer and MINI USA to see how they may handle your issue.

Currently I drive and 07 with 36K, I had the tc tensioner replaced as a courtesy request since I complained of noise. They did not do the entire full kit with timing chain etc.

I don't have any extra noise at this time, but I am under 50K, my MINI was out of warranty last July, so I'm interested in what happens with your issue.

Don

 

Don,

Thanks for the feedback. I would think that others would chime in since this looks like a pretty common problem. I've read through the posts on NAM and Mini2 and there are people there from Colorado, but the posts aren't fresh.

My timing chain tensioner failed 6/5/08 at 20K miles. I had owned the car for about 15 months then. Everything was replaced at that time. It never made any noise until it completely failed. I came to a stop and I could hear the 'bag of rocks' sound and a loud whiring as the chain rubbed on the case. If I held the rpms to about 3,000 everything quieted down due to centrifical force.

Shortly after it was replaced I began to have the 'death rattle' on start up infrequently with no pattern of events, i.e. temperature, amount of time sitting, etc. This had never occurred pre-replacement. I complained about it and had it noted at each regular service that I bought it in for and I brought it in at least twice specifically to have only this problem looked at. I was told it was 'normal' noise. Then they once did the rev it up and bleed the tensioner proceedure and said that should take care of it. I left it at the dealer for several days and they started it up each day and said they could not replicate the noise. They never did the proceedure to measure the length of the chain too see if it had stretched out of spec.

So what they should realize is that they have been terribly insulting to their customers:

1) It's a normal noise = "We think that you are an idiot (at least mechanically)"

2) We can't replicate the noise= " You are an idiot or you are lying to us"

3) They to me this time now that the warranty has expired: " Yes we did hear the noise when we started it up and it does sound like the tensioner/chain". I to them: "See what I mean the occurence is totally random. It was quiet as it could be when I dropped it off." They: "really!" = You are an idiot. Why would you DRIVE it here with the engine hammering away like that! (I guess now I'm lying about it NOT making noise rather that lying about it making noise.)

The dealer had not called me by 4:30 today so I called them. I talked to the service adviser and he said it was the tensioner, chain, etc., etc, and it would cost $1,550 to fix. He said that he had sent information to MINI to see if they would help with it. I told him that Mini had better cover ALL of it and reminded him it had been replaced once and that I had complained about it since 2008. He said he'd let me know tomorrow.

At any point the chain could have broken or jumped timing and then I'd be looking at a new engine.

Knowing what I know now and being in your shoes I would:

1) Complain my head off until they replace the tensioner/chain then sell or trade the car.

2) Or, sell or trade the car now without the fix if your conscience will let you.

3) If you still need to own a Mini then you need to trade it and always keep the new one in warranty. These things are too fragile and expensive to fix to be out of warranty. Of course if you do this you need to resign yourself to higher sales and ownership taxes, depreciation, and insurance costs and feel that owning a Mini is worth it.

I like my Mini, but I keep a new car 8 to 10 years and they are always in very good condition then and I have no problem quickly selling them. It is clearly not cost effective to keep a MINI once the warranty is over.

I'll keep you posted on how this turns out.

Thanks for the response.

 

Thanks for the update, I tend to keep my cars for a few years, then trade or sell.

My 07 is a bit different, so I know any issues will have to be on me. That is not a problem.

I believe in full disclosure, so whomever gets my 07 should be a happy buyer.

The tensioner issue is a road I may have to cross, if so thanks for the cost estimate.

If it goes, I'm thinking a thumper head, cam and updated valve train. Now you know what I mean by a bit different.

Btw, I did not catch your name other than your NAM handle.

Don S.

 

Don and all,

It appears that this has been resolved. Not totally to my liking, but it was not the big fight I though it would be. Mini and the dealer are picking up 70% of the cost and they are doing it at warranty reimbusement rates which are "much less" that regular labor rates so the $1,550 total I was quote will be less and I will pay 30% of that.

I'm still not happy about this since it should have been fixed under warranty over the 3 years I complained about it. I likely should have been even more forceful about it being replaced then - lesson learned.

If like many unfortunate owners have posted, the chain would have come off or timing jumped I could be looking at paying 30% of an $8,000 engine replacement bill. Then I would be pissed.

I don't know if this engineering problem has been address for newer members. There are 100's of posts on various websites stating this problem has happened and many owner have had the chains/tentioner replace twice or three times. The European Mini sites report the same problems as do the other manufacture sites like Puegot, who use this engine. I have not seen reports from owners of 11s or 12's, but I very easily could have missed some and these models are really pretty new to be showing the problem.

Therefore I've decide the Mini is like any other BMW or even Audi or VW - you don't want to own one once the warranty has expired. They are just huge repair bill waiting to happen.

I've had the Mini in for multiple problems many times. We usually got a loaner (under warranty) but it is still a hassle when the dealer is an hour away and a concern when traveling when the nearest dealer may be hours away. So this is a factor in the decision as well.

I'm going to sell the Mini shortly and perhaps get an Asian car. I'm thinking perhaps a nice bullet proof Miata or S2000. Previous to the Mini the last two cars I bought new were a 1999 Trooper that I owned for over 10 years and put over 160,000 miles on it. I NEVER need to take it to the dealer under warranty. The most major problems that happen to it were a new radiator at 120,000 miles and a new starter at 150,000 and at that mileage and age that is really maintance rather than repair. My other purchased new vehicle is a 2004 4dr Chevrolet Tracker (really a rebadged Suzuki Grand Vitara). I still own it, it has 103,000 miles on it. I took it to the dealer ONCE for warranty work and that was simply to have them clean the injectors since it was hard to start. The only major repair I've had to in is an new alternator at 95,000 miles. Neither of these vechicles had easy lifes. I maintain them very, very well, but the Trooper was used to pull popups and travel trailers and used offroad. I used the Tracker for four wheeling offroad as well. It has a body and suspension lift as well as full custom skidplates under it and a rear locker. It has crawled over some big rocks in Moab, but now sees duty as my daughter car since it has been surplanted by my Jeep Rubicon.

Don, my first name is Mark. I live in Louisville as well. My wife and I autocrossed for years and then I moved on to opentrack and mainly ran a very modified Griggs suspended Mustang. I've gotten more into rock crawling now and make multiple trips to parts of New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona and of course Moab. I have a friend to does Hemi conversions on new Jeeps in Boulder so I "fell in with the wrong crowd".

I have another friend who is an engineer and owns his own company who a one time owned a shop where he built custom turbo drag and street bikes. We own a "Mini Indy" car which is about a 1/3 size Indy car with big wings and a Yamaha R1 motor. As modified it has about 170HP and weighs about 500 lb. It was set up for oval track and had NO suspension. We want to use it for open track so we have put Fox air shocks on it for suspension. Unfortunately it still squats so hard under acceleration that it usually throws off the chain on the 1-2 shift! We have gotten it up to 90 in second though. I was side tracked by Jeeping and he got side tracked finishing up his twin turbo Cobra kit car, but I think we'll find the time to come up with a independent rear suspension for it by summer. It may fulfill my need for speed so I may replace the Mini with a more boring family car too.

Thanks all. Consider my advice about keeping your Minis in warranty. We had a lot of fun with the Mini and met some very nice people. I wish you much better luck with your Minis than I had with mine.

 

Mark, nothing wrong with a nice s2000 or miata, they are fine cars. Great recap, glad it kinda worked out, I suspect I may see a new roadster in the future or if the Alfa 4c ever makes it, I may be playing as. 1 MINI family.

Don

 

Iautox, thanks for telling your story. I bought a used '08 Clubman S and purchased the extended warranty just for this kind of concern. Today I have 43K on it and I'm getting signs of the death rattle (noisy starts, bad rattle at 3000 rpm, etc). The problem of course, is it's not consistent. Some mornings it really bad, others it's just fine. Some days I hear the 3000 rpm rattle, some days I don't.

Other than that, love the car!

Percy

 

Hi,
Thanks for the story Mark, it'll help me decide on extened warrenty purchases. I bought a used 08 MCS in April. One of the first starts after we had it, I heard the death rattle. Then nothing for months. Couple of months ago started hearing a timing chain noise, not the rattle but a steady tapping on cold starts. Took it up north, left it over night and they were able to hear the noise. Ended up replaceing the tensioner, chain, all the typical parts. This was all under warranty. Currently it has 28,900 on it and the 4years will be up in April. Hopeing that this will fix it for good, but I will admit that I kinda hold my breath every time I start it cold.

Joel