Wow, why is a JCW crap?
#76
09-23-2005, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tit
MINI COOPER S JCW
"Like all Icons the MINI is expensive, and that's the problem"
"A new MINI S Chilli? $41,900. A John Cooper Works (154kW) tuning kit? $9859. 18 inch alloy wheels and tyres? $4835. Sport Brake Package? $1885. Sport suspension? $1430. Carbon Fibre trim? $3340.50. Seats (front)? $5590. Seats (rear)? $2185. Aero Kit? $2455. Bonnet Stripes and chequered flag roof decal? $487. Paying $73,957.50 for a MINI: Bloody Ridiculous.
It gets worse for MINI. There's a bevy of warriors sitting south of its $74k sticker price waiting to grab your attention and dollar, all are more powerful and all are more capable. Here goes: HSV ClubSport DTS ($71,975) (another link), Nissan 350Z 35th Anniversary ($67,990), FPV F6 Typhoon ($58,590), Mitsubishi EVO VIII ($61,990), Subaru WRX STi ($56,630). Wanna twist the knife? How about Alfa's 147 GTA, which in manual trim will set you back about $59,990, and even BMW's upcoming 195kW 130i is priced at a low, by comparison, $62k.
(clipity)
Swathed, pointlessly, in expensive carbon-fibre, both inside and out, oru test car was an abject lesson in gimmicktry pushed to the extreme.
They even go on to bash the carbon fiber that they added on as an option!!!!
Just because MINI gives so many possibilities in terms of options doesn't mean they had to spec them all.
with all that said, the MINI is on the more expensive side, but that's what you pay for a nice looking car. If everybody really wanted to, they could drive in an ugly car that goes fast. Some people like a quick bang, but MINI owners make sure that bang is really good.
#77
09-23-2005, 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by Greatbear
So far I only have a crappy intake which I got for practically nothing with a set of crappy injectors. I'd like to hear more about those crappy brakes. 
BTW: This guy is rolling around in his grave right about now.........
#78
09-23-2005, 02:33 PM
This is an endless and useless debate. Who really cares?
If your happy with that piece of CRAP you bought for the price you pay ... then peace be with you ... have fun. If your happy adding your own bits and pieces from different vendors, Good for you (an excellent hobby) ... peace be with you to.
Bottom line ... Peace ... in the end, we are all, basically, driving the same car, sharing the same enthusiasm.
If your happy with that piece of CRAP you bought for the price you pay ... then peace be with you ... have fun. If your happy adding your own bits and pieces from different vendors, Good for you (an excellent hobby) ... peace be with you to.
Bottom line ... Peace ... in the end, we are all, basically, driving the same car, sharing the same enthusiasm.
#79
09-23-2005, 03:20 PM
I just love it when writers try and do a comprehensive analysis. Anyone guess what variable they forgot to include in their bang for the buck analysis? I’ll give you a hint cost is not what you paid for the car its how much the car cost you while you owned it. So I go buy a WRX for 20K (MSRP was 24K so I got a deal) and a MC for 22K (MSRP was only 20K so I paid a 2K over) back in 2003, (MSN AUTOS NUMBERS NOT MINE) drive it for two years, put say 30K miles on it. Blue book on the WRX is 19K so total cost was 1k. For the MINI Blue book is 21.5K so my cost was .5K. I am trying all I can, dropping 4k out of the WRX list and adding 2K to the MINI and the MINI is still less.
I guess my point is if you buy a 911 for 100K and sell it in 4 years for 100k well your not getting any bang for your buck as you did not spend any money at all.
I guess it just goes to show you can make any analysis come to the conclusion you want if you set up the formulas right.
Oh check this out, according to MSN if you paid MSRP for your 2003 you can sell it for a profit. So that makes the bang for your buck negitive no wonder it lost.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...=96802#trimsel
I guess my point is if you buy a 911 for 100K and sell it in 4 years for 100k well your not getting any bang for your buck as you did not spend any money at all.
I guess it just goes to show you can make any analysis come to the conclusion you want if you set up the formulas right.
Oh check this out, according to MSN if you paid MSRP for your 2003 you can sell it for a profit. So that makes the bang for your buck negitive no wonder it lost.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...=96802#trimsel
#80
09-23-2005, 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by chows4us
This is an endless and useless debate. Who really cares?
If your happy with that piece of CRAP you bought for the price you pay ... then peace be with you ... have fun. If your happy adding your own bits and pieces from different vendors, Good for you (an excellent hobby) ... peace be with you to.
Bottom line ... Peace ... in the end, we are all, basically, driving the same car, sharing the same enthusiasm.
If your happy with that piece of CRAP you bought for the price you pay ... then peace be with you ... have fun. If your happy adding your own bits and pieces from different vendors, Good for you (an excellent hobby) ... peace be with you to.
Bottom line ... Peace ... in the end, we are all, basically, driving the same car, sharing the same enthusiasm.
#81
09-23-2005, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by BabyHueyVFR
For the MINI Blue book is 21.5K so my cost was .5K. I am trying all I can, dropping 4k out of the WRX list and adding 2K to the MINI and the MINI is still less.
#82
09-23-2005, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by chows4us
Bottom line ... Peace ... in the end, we are all, basically, driving the same car, sharing the same enthusiasm.
#83
09-23-2005, 04:15 PM
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#84
09-23-2005, 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by XAlfa
However, some of our cars are much crappier than others. Mine, for example, is just unbelievably crappy. I mean, you'd just have to drive it to appreciate it's complete and utter crappiness.
I've seen so much CRAP in my life that ... well lets say I'm CRAPPED out.
Now if we were talking about CRAPS, then I LOVE CRAPS (but that is another thread for OT
) I LOVE CRAPS so much that I'd love to play CRAPS in my CRAPPY car
#85
09-23-2005, 04:24 PM
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#86
09-23-2005, 07:39 PM
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#89
09-23-2005, 08:17 PM
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#90
09-23-2005, 08:37 PM
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#91
09-23-2005, 08:47 PM
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#92
09-23-2005, 09:03 PM
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#93
09-23-2005, 09:06 PM
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#94
09-23-2005, 09:16 PM
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ANYWAY,
Back to the crappy topic at hand...
If I wanted my JCW MINI after the warranty's up, to have say 230hp without making it outragiously obnoxious (in other words, ricey), how is the safe way of going about it? In other words what can I do?
My uncle said the other day that polished/ported heads on a car like this is BS. AND BELIEVE ME, he knows something about cars. He said that since the air is being crammed in there, there really isn't a need for it. Is he right?
My planned performance Mods after JCW/Warranty:
Spark Plug Wires
Coil Pack
Alta Short Shifter
....
Help me finish my list!
Mikey
Back to the crappy topic at hand...
If I wanted my JCW MINI after the warranty's up, to have say 230hp without making it outragiously obnoxious (in other words, ricey), how is the safe way of going about it? In other words what can I do?
My uncle said the other day that polished/ported heads on a car like this is BS. AND BELIEVE ME, he knows something about cars. He said that since the air is being crammed in there, there really isn't a need for it. Is he right?
My planned performance Mods after JCW/Warranty:
Spark Plug Wires
Coil Pack
Alta Short Shifter
....
Help me finish my list!
Mikey
#95
09-23-2005, 09:38 PM
Actually, the head is one of the places we've really found a lot of power - as have others. There are a couple of tricks that I'd like to keep up my sleeve, but our head has bigger valves, different ports and more lift and duration on the cam. It is just as important on a force induced car to have great flow characteristics - but it is a common misperception, along with intake temps not mattering on a supercharged car (another farce).
Another spot you may be able to make some power is in the intercooler system. The GRS has shown consistent power gains in the 9-11 horsepower range, and there are other pricey ways to go that can yield even more.
A header and more efficient cat-back can also free up a few more ponies.
All of these mods have proven "smooth" and reliable.
Hope that helps!
Randy
First Honorary Member, Team CRAPTASTIC
Another spot you may be able to make some power is in the intercooler system. The GRS has shown consistent power gains in the 9-11 horsepower range, and there are other pricey ways to go that can yield even more.
A header and more efficient cat-back can also free up a few more ponies.
All of these mods have proven "smooth" and reliable.
Hope that helps!
Randy
First Honorary Member, Team CRAPTASTIC
#96
09-23-2005, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by RandyBMC
Actually, the head is one of the places we've really found a lot of power - as have others. There are a couple of tricks that I'd like to keep up my sleeve, but our head has bigger valves, different ports and more lift and duration on the cam. It is just as important on a force induced car to have great flow characteristics - but it is a common misperception, along with intake temps not mattering on a supercharged car (another farce).
Another spot you may be able to make some power is in the intercooler system. The GRS has shown consistent power gains in the 9-11 horsepower range, and there are other pricey ways to go that can yield even more.
A header and more efficient cat-back can also free up a few more ponies.
All of these mods have proven "smooth" and reliable.
Hope that helps!
Randy
First Honorary Member, Team CRAPTASTIC
Another spot you may be able to make some power is in the intercooler system. The GRS has shown consistent power gains in the 9-11 horsepower range, and there are other pricey ways to go that can yield even more.
A header and more efficient cat-back can also free up a few more ponies.
All of these mods have proven "smooth" and reliable.
Hope that helps!
Randy
First Honorary Member, Team CRAPTASTIC
#97
09-23-2005, 09:48 PM
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I just want a MINI that everyone knows has at least 210, but really has 230. I'm saying is there anything that is not obvious? I would like when they open the hood to see that JCW Cover and airbox, and some red sparkplug wires, but really nothing more. I know Madness is selling a cam shaft, is this worth it? I am removing the resonator also after I get the kit so that should be good for a couple!
BUT ABOVE ALL, I WANT MY CAR TO BE REFINED, SMOOTH, AND FEEL LIKE A JCW STOCK BUT WITH SOME MORE KICK!
Any more?
Mikey
BUT ABOVE ALL, I WANT MY CAR TO BE REFINED, SMOOTH, AND FEEL LIKE A JCW STOCK BUT WITH SOME MORE KICK!
Any more?
Mikey
#98
09-23-2005, 09:53 PM
Well, you could stick with the cylinder head (I hear from many folks that my head is the best ). I would also do the ported manifolds and header, which will still retain the sleeper look.
If you are going to do the cam (which we also sell
), the labor is just about the same for the head - if you can afford the part, do both.
I'd be happy to help when you are ready. We have several JCW cars out there with a ton more than the 230hp you are looking for, all smooth and refined.
Hope that helps!
Randy
). I would also do the ported manifolds and header, which will still retain the sleeper look.If you are going to do the cam (which we also sell
), the labor is just about the same for the head - if you can afford the part, do both.I'd be happy to help when you are ready. We have several JCW cars out there with a ton more than the 230hp you are looking for, all smooth and refined.
Hope that helps!
Randy
#99
09-23-2005, 09:55 PM
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Yes....a couple of mates and I were musing today that BMW insists on handing out a fully loaded JCW as a press car. They did that with the last MCS as well. Ticking every box is just ridiculous. Also....you'll probably find they are comparing a fully loaded crap-wagon to entry-price examples of those compared.... i'm sure I could make an STi pretty expsive by ticking the 'all the pink (STi) bits please' box...
Originally Posted by mataku
uh... so they added every expensive item possible that doesn't give anything performancewise? aero kit, carbon fiber trim, all the seats? those come out to well over 10,000. and aren't even really offered by the competition.
They even go on to bash the carbon fiber that they added on as an option!!!!
Just because MINI gives so many possibilities in terms of options doesn't mean they had to spec them all.
with all that said, the MINI is on the more expensive side, but that's what you pay for a nice looking car. If everybody really wanted to, they could drive in an ugly car that goes fast. Some people like a quick bang, but MINI owners make sure that bang is really good.
They even go on to bash the carbon fiber that they added on as an option!!!!
Just because MINI gives so many possibilities in terms of options doesn't mean they had to spec them all.
with all that said, the MINI is on the more expensive side, but that's what you pay for a nice looking car. If everybody really wanted to, they could drive in an ugly car that goes fast. Some people like a quick bang, but MINI owners make sure that bang is really good.
#100
09-23-2005, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by RandyBMC
Well, you could stick with the cylinder head (I hear from many folks that my head is the best ). I would also do the ported manifolds and header, which will still retain the sleeper look.
If you are going to do the cam (which we also sell), the labor is just about the same for the head - if you can afford the part, do both.
I'd be happy to help when you are ready. We have several JCW cars out there with a ton more than the 230hp you are looking for, all smooth and refined.
Hope that helps!
Randy
). I would also do the ported manifolds and header, which will still retain the sleeper look.If you are going to do the cam (which we also sell
), the labor is just about the same for the head - if you can afford the part, do both.I'd be happy to help when you are ready. We have several JCW cars out there with a ton more than the 230hp you are looking for, all smooth and refined.
Hope that helps!
Randy