ML and Rally:

Please do not get me wrong here; I am not stating this is what they will do (use someone else's lug bolts), but it figured that would be the logical assumption of at least some of the skeptics in this thread. ML jumped in sooner than Rally, but I knew someone here was bound to say it was about time that they made me a satisfied customer before this goes any further. All I can say is they have tried, at least to date. Me? I'm not a skeptic until I have run out of options.

 

Like I said, they never said these are made by someone else, nor am I saying that I think they are made by someone else, but I am observing that no such lug is on their US site and I cannot find any UK site. I knew you would draw your own conclusions and I am not surprised at your conclusions.

 

hahah yah its good to see that they atleast attempted to help after two parts completely failed. I doubt they are gonna have one single set custom made for you...the setup charge for the machines would be massive to make one run.

It still remains a problem that their advertisements contain such lies and promises of untrue quality and the fact that they continue to sell faulty products. It's no solution to just help those that complain but continue to sell the product. To truely help, they would look at what is going wrong and fix it.

 

My guess is they went to to th local performance tire shop and bought a set of chrome lugs. They'll wait a week or so so it looks like they waited till they came from "London" and then ship. Just my jaded, cynical look at the mascinations of P.U.

 

Well I mean really, how far are you willing to go? Because it appears that PU will just keep sending you crap until you give up.

For me, if i were you, I was buying "their" product. The first set was defective. Whatever, it happens. The second set had the same defect. At that point, I'd be asking for a refund. It would be obvious to me at that point that "their" product is defective and/or low quality, if they are now sending me other products from other manufacturers to try and fill the void for one patient and dilligent customer...

 

Well really, what do you think is going on? Do you think that they're going to machine a special set of lugs just for you? Machining costs are huge - it's why PU sells rebranded stuff to start with.

 

That brings up a good point too.....if they are just getting them from another manufacturer, that's something you could have done yourself if you had gotten the refund from them. And considering i got a set of 20 lugs for 30 bucks that are chrome and have never rusted....and according to their site, they took 70 dollars from you for the lugs? That's 40 dollars that could be yours if you asked for the refund and then just went to your local custom wheel shop.

Also, you noted that they don't carry the nut conversion.......i noticed that they do on their site while i was looking to see how much they charge for bolts. http://1346843.estore.networksolutio...tail.bok?no=76

 

I don't think I said this; where did you think I said this?

 

No doubt they are not manufacturing anything just for me. That would be completely absurd!

If you accept what was said in the reply at face value, PU has maintained that they manufacture other types of locking lugs that do not have such an opening (the opening that has been rusting). My observation was, "if" that is in fact true, then why are these other closed-end type lug bolts not being advertised for sale on their site? I knew that such an anomaly would lead the skeptics here to think that PU would simply go out and find me some other manufacturer's closed-end type lug bolts and then send them out to me as their own PU replacements.

I frankly don't know what to think at this point until I receive these latest replacements. So far I am of course unhappy that to date the items delivered have not measured up to the claims of world-class; it is trying and a bit of a PITA. However, they are still attempting to work things out for me, so I'm not going to go off on them until they get their proverbial third strike, should that even happen. I cannot say at this point though that your conclusion is all that illogical.

As to the cost, if it is simply a plain set of lug bolts without any locks, then the cost of the set of 16 (nearly $70) is way too much. However, if there are 12 bolts with 4 wheel locking bolts too (or even 16 locking bolts) then that cost is completely in line with other manufacturers out there, assuming the quality is up there with McGard's line of such bolts and locks. No?

Of course I will faithfully report to you what happens, once I get the latest set of lug bolts. I am not a PU shill; I'm not on the PU payroll, but I think they should get a fair chance to completely run themselves out of options. If they let me down again, believe me, they have messed with the wrong person.

 

sorry might have misunderstood...generally the term "closed end" is used for lug nuts not lug bolts because you can get open ended lug nuts. You generally don't call a lug bolt open ended if it has a lock on it. Lug nuts come in open ended and the thread goes all the way through. So when i saw you saying close ended, my mind instantly jumped to closed end lug nuts.....wasnt thinking you meant lug bolts

You said:

 

Just to be clear about how I feel on this matter, my immediate concern is getting my own problem corrected and getting my money's worth. However, if this is what is actually going on, I don't disagree at all.

 

You're a better person than me, hands down... After the second set began to rust I would have asked for a full refund and I would have moved on. I really do hope that your consistently positive outlook and willingness to keep giving PU the chance to do right by you pays off in the end. Good luck!

 

I think it is more of I am doing the best that I can with this situation under the circumstances. I must say they have said "mostly" the right things, at least so far (and I say "mostly" because their tact of saying it was probably my fault when the first set rusted was vehemently disputed), but that could be because with all the correspondence back and forth they know there is a fairly big and well-documented record building along the way that will be very, very tough to dispute. Or, maybe there was a knee-jerk reaction on their part (given past experiences, as well as the sort of treatment they get on NAM from their detractors) that led to them saying it was my fault and now they really want to make things right (or earn another detractor). If it all turns out fine in the end, well then both parties will win. If not, then we both probably lose (me my $ - although I will certainly attempt to get a full refund for the lugs and wrench, which I would no longer need - and them a pretty difficult and PO'd customer who will not let them forget this episode).

 

IMO PU is probably got word of this thread thus they changed their tact

 

That is certainly a possibility, if in fact their tact needed changing; this may be a good thing though for everyone down the line, especially if Rally's advice were to be followed.

 

Seems that way as they initially were very rude to you but as soon as you posted what happened....complete turn around.

 

Well, I said PU "mostly" handled this well in one of my earlier posts for just that reason (the initial exchanges) and it is also why I said your speculation is certainly a possibility. NAM allows you a forum to address such things and if used in a positive way may well make things turn out right. Since this is still an ongoing matter, I'll reserve final judgment and comments on the outcome (all's well that ends well would be sweet music), but you may be right, in as much as I may not have gotten this far.

 

My advice won't be followed by them. This has happened on multiple occasions and they haven't changed a bit. They just write me off as if I'm making this stuff up

 

Just assuming for a moment that you had the PU folks pegged right from the start, maybe by now all the bashing they have received on NAM has actually affected their business model. So, what would you do in their shoes?

I know, you never would have gone down this road to start with, but just suppose for the time being. If their sales have been impacted by NAM threads they would either have to find an alternative way of operating (i.e., improve the product, as well as their customer service) or just close up shop and call it a day.

What was it that Honest Abe said about fooling people?

 

The solution seems pretty simple to me....if the lugs you supply always rust, stop selling them and find a new manufacturer or process of manufacturing for them. Start selling these new ones that don't rust. They haven't taken this route. They took the route that said to tell customers that experience rusting that it must be a bad batch....send them the same lugs knowing that they rust.......repeat as needed.

Another simple solution.....if your product isn't the best quality in the market, if it doesnt actually outperform its competition, if it wasn't actually designed and manufactured by your company......don't say those things in the advertisements.

It was put well in the M7 thread......Randy said that he didn't have to claim added performance gains for the black chrome strut brace, people would buy it for its finish. People would buy PU wheels even if PU didn't lie and say that it was designed by the artist.....and people would buy the scoop even if PU didnt exaggerate and say it had amazing performance gains. Lying only gets you one thing....upset customers who were expecting more from the product due to false advertising. If they tell the truth....they will still sell products and the customers will get what they expect out of the product

All of this seems like simple buisness practice.....

 

Maybe what people are missing is
a: most people that by the lugs don't care
b: they've only sold 2 or 3 sets
c: most don't rust

They could not be making any money if every set they sell has to be replaced 2 or 3 times.


And no never bought from them and don't plan to.

 

I have to question the premises you stated, simply because I do not get your logic on your first two (a. and b.). Maybe you could explain these two and I will understand.

First, if purchasers are complaining and getting replacements for them, then they obviously do care. I seem to recall that within this ever-growing thread that at least one other person who posted here has had their PU lugs replaced and more than one time. Second, just based on the posts to this thread I think they have sold more than just a couple of sets. Third, I hope you're correct with your third statement (c.) that most don't rust, as that would restore faith in the product and the PU representations. It would seem to me that these were simply speculations you offered as possible explanations. Am I missing something?

BTW, I tried looking for product reviews in the review section and did not find any on these PU tuner lugs. I plan on making a post there about them when all is said and done and I finally have my issues with them and the related PU wrench fully resolved. I already made two reviews today on the two different CF scoops I have purchased, although I think they have to go through some sort of site review before they become publicly viewable.

 

It could be that most people that buy them don't care if the rust or never look at them this seems unlikely.

How many sets have been sold no idea but if they all rust then there are not 100's of people complaining here.

I would guess they have not sold many sets. Another thing is I have no idea if they have ad's in other places. This would seem likely because if you been any time on this board you will see nothing but problems from them. They have 50 complaints to every praise.

 

For me, the quote that's more applicable in this situation is: "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

 

Agreed on your first comment (it is unlikely).

Seems a reasonable observation too on your second comment.

Not sure how to conclude how many sets were sold, but you can see before this episode my number of posts were fairly low. I had only owned my Mini for less than 6 months when I first purchased the PU lugs and I had not read about the general displeasure with them or other PU products.

Just to be clear, I had a problem with their PU lug wrench too and it was replaced promptly (so, good and bad; it should not have been a problem, but they did take care of it). I have their stubby antennae and it has been perfectly fine, so no complaints there. I also have had their new CF scoop (but I have sent it back to be replaced by an unbadged one; see my review in the review section that makes comparisons to the CF M7 scoop that I also own), which apart from the desire to get it unbadged was a very nicely manufactured product (the CF is claimed to be aircraft quality - I have no way of knowing this, as I am not an afficianado, but it certainly appears to be very high quality indeed), so this was not all a one-way street, at least not for me, although the tide on NAM is certainly flowing against PU in general. Once I see how they finally straighten out this lug problem, I will know more; I am hoping for the best, although I know a good end result will come as a surprise to many.