Rally:

It is much worse than that, as with me they apparently went further than they did with others, probably because they felt from the correspondence between us that they needed to create a story they could sell as cover. If you read it all you can clearly see their pattern. The latest e-mails once again go to the same old well and try to turn this all on me - I can't be satisfied, no matter what they do.

I'm going to sit on this for a day to reflect and I may post only parts of their alibis, but I probably should just post the last few e-mails between us, because it will all be so darn clear. I'm waiting for the threats of lawsuits to come, as that seems to be part of the standard circling of the wagons.

I'll report back, but this is already ugly and no one else should have to put up with this sort of headache. The funny thing is, I meant every word I wrote about their CF scoop - now I just hope it doesn't reveal some flaw down the road (no pun intended).

 

Yikes....hopefully things work out. If they're attempting to make this as bad as lawsuits, i would certainly reveal the emails. They are selling a part that seems to fail instantly on countless occasions....and that's something that should stop, not just be "solved" case by case with excuses and arguing on their part.

 

This is becoming laughable.

 

Rally:

I'm just speculating about the lawsuit. They have yet to say anything about one, but recalling that someone else here said it was a word thrown out by PU in the past, I just sort of sense that is where they may take this thing.

I think that first the words slander and libel will inevitably find their way into their vocabulary, but for something to be slander or libel it must be untruthful to start. I think I have that one covered in spades. The second part is it must hurt their reputation or standing in the community. Given how I have openly given them every opportunity to prove so many here (the ones who were already so staunchly against them) wrong, how could anything I do be construed as not coming from giving them a chance to improve their standing in the NAM community? I do not see how anyone cannot see that the overwhelming sentiments expressed about them here already shows a very low opinion of them (they had like only one, maybe two supporters in any threads I’ve been in), so I am unconcerned about those two words, because the case would be laughable. Besides, I wrote a very favorable review of their new CF scoop; it wasn’t BS, as I like it and have used it interchangeably on my Mini with the CF one from M7 (although I am now wondering how long I’ll be happy with it). If I wanted to libel and slander PU, why would I praise one of their other products?

They have already said to me they keep feeling I'm threatening them by saying I'm talking about their track record with me on the matter here on NAM. If it is the truth is it a threat? They don't seem willing to refund me the money, so what do I have to gain from posting about it, other than to warn others that I was also extremely disappointed in the product and I ultimately feel mislead about their "good intentions" to rectify things. It was all a game to be able to turn around and say they tried everything to please me. Apparently, my expectations were too high for the world's finest manufacturer of Mini auto parts and accessories.

All my comments or display of the e-mails I have traded with PU will do is serve to reinforce the pattern so many have already said exists. They got me too.

 

BTW, in the marketplace I am selling the new and unused PU lug wrench (which works fine, but is more or less a luxury and only its telescoping feature is a reason to have it) and the extra new and unused tuner lug key (should anyone actually have a set of PU lugs they are keeping on their Mini). PU won't take these back and I am sure I won't get credit from my card company either (these are both new and undamaged, so I do not qualify under the credit card company's refund quidelines). Maybe I can recoup something for the items that at least function properly.

I withdrew selling the lugs for obvious reasons; even at a real bargain basement price, it wouldn't be appropriate. I'll ask my card company for credit, but even here it will be an uphill struggle and probably not pan out. No doubt PU will say the lugs were replaced with new ones, not once, but twice and it will sound to the card company like PU did what was reasonable. Trying to explain to my card company that the original lugs all were a locking variety and that the latest replacement ones are not, will fall on deaf ears; they will not even comprehend the significance. I have to wonder though if it is not just about the rust.

 

I'm sorry....this is getting rediculous. They are accusing you of threatening them?

They have yet to give you what you paid for. When you paid them that first time, you paid them for a set of locking lug nuts that wouldn't rust. You got a few sets that rusted, and then you get a set that doesn't lock. None of those meet the criteria of what you paid for (according to THEIR advertisments). I think if you phrased it this way with the credit card company you might get them to listen. Say that every set you received didn't meet the description of what you paid for. They don't need to get deep into the logistics of locking vs. non-locking lug nuts.......they're just lawyers. Explain to them that the first sets didnt meet the stainless criteria, and that the next set werent locking lugs like you had paid for (locking lugs are MORE expensive than normal lugs afterall).

 

I really have to wonder at just what point keeping PU as a vendor will be regarded a bad thing for NAM? Despite calling them out, exactly 1 NAM member has expressed continued satisfaction with PU. And virtually anytime that NAMmer has posted, it has been to praise PU. The vendor clearly has no regard for the NAM community. Why are they still here?

 

Becoming?

 

For comic relief.

If they leave, we won't be able to logon and see "Palo Uber Tuner Lugs..." in the Latest Topics every day. That anyone would even take the very concept of "tuner lugs" or "tuning lugs" seriously is as difficult to fathom as it is unintentionally funny. It sounds about as legitimate as visual tuning.

One of the vendors has to be the Barney Fife of companies represented on this site. It might as well be Palo Uber. Additionally, it is insurance for the second-to-worst vendor against hitting rock bottom in member opinion.

 

Barney Fife is a sympahetic fool. I hardly think PU has earned that disinction.

 

I do need to thank PU for my upcoming shift into 6th gear...Without them I might still be putting along in 3rd.....

 

I just don't get why people continue to buy things from this vendor...and furthermore, why they are allowed to continue to post on this site. I would certainly hope that the powers that be at NAM would value respect of its members over some vendor ad fees. But I guess I should begin to wonder...

TJM

 

Maybe the "powers that be" get free tuner lugs.

 

Rally:

I know how to play this credit card dispute issue as well as anyone, but most card issuers will look at this and say that PU tried, bent over backwards even, to please me. Certainly that is how the PU e-mails have been set-up to read. Besides, PU will say they have sent me 3 sets of lugs already and I presently have 2 of them. Even though I am willing to return everything it will not play. If it were AMEX and not VISA or M/C I think I'd have a better chance, as AMEX I have found will give more benefit of the doubt to their cardholders.

In any case, there is a whole new round of e-mails from today. While every e-mail comes from the same e-mail address, I am supposedly now dealing with Sir Patrick's son, Sean Cummings. He has said he thinks bringing in a new voice will give the matter new perspective and perhaps get the matter resolved. He says Bryce is too ill (alluding that I somehow contributed) to address the matter any longer. I said this is like the high-pressure sales ruse of bringing in a different person when the first one can’t close, or good cop/bad cop. Of course he denied that was it.

I've said all they need to do to resolve the matter is refund my money, but Sean wants to send me yet another set of lugs that he claims will be ready in October and will have eliminated the rust problem (it is such a long story, but depending on how this plays out you may get to see all the e-mails and make of them what you will). I've gone this far, they are not offering me the alternative to simply get a refund, and so I want to see what he will now send me. Whatever happens, good or bad, you'll hear about it.

Regardless of whatever they send I do not appreciate their treatment and attitude. I am being made out in their e-mails to be impossible to please and ungrateful. I even now have somehow made Bryce more ill than he already was and he is unable to deal with the matter; I apparently am unappreciative and never say "thank you". I said they at least got a positive review of their CF scoop from me and I have stated here I never had a problem with their antenna, although someone else had a whole thread complaining about it. I said my only gripe has been about their rusty lugs and the socket head and key that broke far too easily when trying to use it on their lugs. I also said their communications are unclear at best and intentionally misleading at worst.

In addressing how they are perceived here on NAM, I said they took someone who had no axe to grind (me) and turned him against them. They said the only product that they have ever had a problem with are these lugs and that they have more business from NAM that from any other source. They continue to maintain that those here who bash them largely never used any of their products and are being monitored (by who was not said, but the implication I took away was by NAM administrators). This cloak and dagger stuff seems to all be nonsense, but I am going to play out the string. As I said, when the end of the line is reached, you'll all hear the details, be they gory or pleasant. This is like a bad soap opera though.

 

Hopefully, not ones that rust.

 

If I may...I don't speak for NAM but as the admin of an unrelated forum.

It is not the job of forum management to police advertisers and decide if they are worthy or not. All other media accepts any and all advertising as long as the content does not violate statutes why should an online forum be held to a different standard. It should be up to the member to discuss the salient points of their experiences and decide on their own by research if the advertiser is worthy of their patronage. How many times have you seen pure junk advertised on TV. Is it the TV stations responsibility to determine if the product or service is worthy to the viewer community?

The company in question has to know they are being beat to death on this forum, yet they still chose to advertise. If they do not routinely search for comments about themselves then it just comes down to bad practices on their own part. The marketplace shakes out the crap over time.

 

There are a few aspects on the vendor/NAM site relationship that would benefit from the light of day. So you see the Black Crowes this summer or what?

 

blackie, I'd send every bit of correspondence to the CC company, and to the States Attorney in both your home state and Cali. Return all goods to them via USPS registered, signature required, with a signed returned post card. In the package Demand a full refund, also send the demand via the same registered mail. Provide the CC company with the signed returns. Inform the CC company of each step and request the case number so you can keep adding notes as each step is taken.

Oh yeah, refuse the new lugs when they come too.

 

Sean is that 25 year old kid i showed you on myspace See how that goes....

Blaming your for someone's illness....wow, that's a crazy card to pull. PU always surprises me. If you're that sick....take some time off work.

Of course it's their number one source. What other source could compete with NAM? NAM is the largest MINI forum in the country if not the world (i dont know how mini2 compares). We have only been able to find 3 happy customers though.....and that thread has been open for quite a long time.

That's the only product they've had problems with? Whatever happened to the "bad batch" of antennas?(among tons of other issues) Oh, how quick the mind is to forget failure.

Since this is supposedly being monitored ...i will state again that it doesnt matter if any of us has purchased from them. It's not hard to see that multiple people have had issues with these rusted lugs, that their wheels are rebadged and lied about, their antennas discolor, the artists is a fake, the lies of countless "bad batches"..... and on goes the lists of the lies and failures of PU as a company........doesnt take a purchase to see that their is a problem there. The attempt to discredit the vocal users based on their lack of a purchase is laughable at best. All information i voice in these threads has been collected from people who have purchased from PU and experienced problems. I watch the threads, talk to each upset customer (as blackie can acknowledge), and bring the information together to shed some light on the situations at hand. The fact that i didn't buy a product doesn't disqualify the information that i have collected from those who have made purchases.

Where are your manners Blackie.......you should have said thank you all those times when you got a new set of lugs that instantly rusted or said thank you after they fed you lies about "bad batches"

 

Product that insta-rust are not acceptable, and the third set wasn't even what you ordered... I gotta say it:

The only one "bending over", backwards, forwards or otherwise, seems to be you, dude. But like I said... You're a better man than I am - I woulda reported them to my credit card company MONTHS ago.

As for NAM and PU, well... I know NAM's got to keep the lights on, but this is simply an embarassment. I'm a firm believer in caveat emptor (let the buyer beware), but come one... I guess that's why the web exists - just be thankful for spiders that troll the web for threads like this - hopefully someone will read this before tossing money at PU for something. All I know is that it won't be me.

 

Like it or not, this is reality...If Nam were to shut off one Vendor because of some unhappy customers it would open a whole can of worms. How many customers would have to have a bad experience for NAM to cancel their advertising? We as the consumer will decide which Vendors succeed or who can't pay their advertising bills by our purchases...

 

You don't get it, apparently. I did report this dispute months ago, but the ball gets tossed back and forth. As long as PU is appearing to rectify the situation the credit card issuer is going to stand by and wait until PU is completely out of options. If this were an item of real significant expense I would have done exactly as gnatster mentioned, but it isn't. This set of lugs was purchased for probably about $53 shipped (I think that I got some sort of sucker's discount). It is actually interesting seeing the extent that PU is willing to go through to NOT refund this small sale. I have to wonder why they simply will not refund and move on. They'd say it is because they are committed to customer satisfaction. I can't say I'm enjoying this, but the PU e-mails are almost entertaining in their approach, even if I'd classify them as pulling excuses out of you know where.

 

Yeah, I get that... I was just being a wise-***. Hope you get it worked out one way or another. Hey - at least you won't be putting another set of them on your car only to end up screwed when you can't get them OFF again, right?

 

Thanks! I like happy endings.

 

Maybe the admin here won't remove PU as a vendor, but they could always sticky this and the antenna thread