As some of you may or may not know, the dreaded Cold Start Rattle/Clatter/Hammering continues to affect new 09 MCS's, and BMW continues to stumble in the dark to devise a fix that works (nothing else has).

My 09 (see sig) developed it at barely 2500 miles. Very unsettling, TSTL

However, a few of us were wondering: since this is the first full winter since the JCW release, have any of you with factory JCWs experienced this very obnoxious noise here recently? The symptoms are: starts OK for a few seconds, then sounds like metal-on-metal hammering that can last anywhere from 10 seconds to several minutes, otherwise smooth idle, no codes/cel lights, no unusual exhaust, louder in the cabin than outside. After that, all's well.

Thanks!

 

I live in Florida so I guess I won't get the rattle because it just does not get down in the teens here. The coldest we had this year was 24degrees but that didn't last long enough to get a car cold enough to freeze. I,m wondering if it has anything to do with the metal in the engine expanding or contracting.
My Corvette engine was OK when it got cold but the body made all kinds of goofy noises that drove me nuts. No noise or rattles at all when it was warm out.
My JCW is flawless so far but I only have 2,915 miles on it. I just changed the oil today for the first time. Mini Oil from the dealer.
If it starts rattling I will let everyone know.
Ronnie948

 

My 2009 JCW started getting the cold start problems after only about 3000km. Sometimes it starts well in cold, but the problem continues to plague the JCW's

 

I'm at over 3000 miles (maybe 4000?) and I'm sure to be jinx'ing myself by saying anything but nothing from my engine. I don't drive every day; only a few times a week. edit: He stays outside in the cold.

 

dangit. there went a possible theory. thanks

IF any of U are SAE-level techies out there y'll love this guy's writeups in Blue. His company supplied valve parts for the R50/53 Tritec motor. It the most plausible theory yet, but bmw is not wont to admit "bad engineering" and wont allow him to try a fix. Germans. So stubbornly sure of themselves.

http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/in...3&topic=3115.0

 

I have not experienced this issue. I live in the NYC area. Took delivery in late November. I have a bit less than 3000 miles. My car is garaged and the garage is usually 50 to 58 degrees in the winter time.

 

Ambient temps do not make a diff-- there are folks in TX and AZ that are reporting that damned rattle when it's in the 80s and 90s.

 

I had a 2008 MCS for 8500 miles/7 months, it had the cold-rattle once. My JCW now has only 2400 miles but has not done it yet. I'm much less concerned about it than most others seem to be. I have yet to see R56 engines scattering themselves on the road.

 

Neither has anyone...and that's what make this issue so insidious.

It's more likely that this will gradually manifest itself like a cancer in the engine over time -- a downward slide of performance and efficiency due to lost compression, increasing oil consumption, appearance of sympathetic problems (could oil draining from the HLAs and leaking past worn seals be a source of the carbon build-up reports?), increasingly obtrusive sound, etc. When the engine gets so bad as to demand intervention, or if the problem finally does manifest itself as a catastrophic failure of a valve train component, you can bet it will be beyond the warranty period at which point you will have full ownership of the problem.

I guess if you routinely upgrade your vehicles every 3-4 years it's less of an issue. Analogous to the 1st Gen CVT experience, I feel for future used car buyers who will not have a clue what they're getting into.

 

Funny how you should mention this, as it just happened to me today for the first time. Sounds exactly how you describe. Temperature was -6 (c), and it rattled like a bastard for about 2 minutes on the way to my work out. I am happy to report it did stop, but found it strange that it didn't do this earlier when it was -18 (c). Just so you know, I have 2100 kms on it.

 

According to a SAE engineer/valve train specialist that has a whole new theory as to its cause, (badly engineered hydraulic lash adjusters [HLAs] and excessive dry valve lash, working with the normal expansion and contraction of metal) the probable reason for the randomness is that it depends on where the camshaft comes to rest during the previous power down. Who knows? It may never happen again, or once/twice a year. As long as it's that, I'll just consider it another merry quirk.

Oh and try not to drive until the sound dissapates, damage could be done under load. and another SAE engineer I know suggested that indeed if the HLAs are draining excessive oil, rev yr car to 2500-3K then hit the power off switch if the car will be parked at an angle or for more than 6 hours. This may force more pressurized oil into the HLAs, and reduce the likelihood of excessive oil drain-out and subsequent aeration.

 

Ya know Ive been wondering about that possible connection...

 

Do you think That MINI won't do a recall now because they already have their hands full with the recall on exhaust tips. So they say this isnt worthy of a recall since it doesnt affect safety. These goofy issues are keeping me from buying. I hope they fix this , or replace that engine they use. Its hurting their image. and keeping me from buying a car i might actually enjoy.

 

Bet they haven't seen a failure until it's out of warranty...at that point they stick it under "operator error due to excessive engine wear under load" standard dealership stuff....blame engineering under those silly car owners.....

Looks like I'll keep lurking the dealership until we see movement...I plan to add stuff to the engine and I really don't want to have to fight it out with a dealership on if my boost tubes are causing their high perfomance 1.6l to ping and *****...

 

I've had rattle, sounds like plastic, almost like fan has to warm up and then some how balances out. It does go away. This is definitly built like a race machine, tempermental buggers

 

I have heard the rattle once after startup. Lasted less than a minute. Engine rpm had no affect on it. It almost sounded like bad rod bearing. The sound is something like the oil knock one would hear after changing the oil and restarting the engine for the first time, until it builds up oil pressure again. The car only had about 2K miles on it at the time and I have not heard it since. It was quite unnerving, to say the least.

 

We are still pretty new to the Mini community but I heard what I think is the same noise you guys are describing and was looking for info so I started searching. Our car was bought used with 7K on the clock. It now has 11k. First off I must say that this engine relatively speaking is the most mechanical sounding that I've ever owned. It's flat out noisey while idling and really doesn't sound all that good . . . certainly not what I'd expect from BMW. The sound in general doesn't sound as if anything is wrong with the motor but it just doesn't sound good. My wife typically drives the car so I don't get regular seat time, however, this morning I drove it in to work. Upon start up the car sounded like a desiel!? I got out and popped the hood and from what I can tell the sound is coming from the top end directly under the injectors. More specifically, the right most cylinder (passenger side). It sounded very much like, well plastic on plastic tapping. The temp was 48 degrees F outside and the car is garaged. Revving the engine just made it sound like revving a smoker. Otherwise, exhaust noise sounds fantastic. At this point I'm assuming this is normal or should I say expected but it is none the less disappointing for this caliber of car. I guess I'll mention it to the dealer next time we are in for service to see what info they have.

 

My parking spot at home leaves the MINI slightly nose up and no rattle on startup. At work the MINI is parked slightly nose down and I almost always get the rattle...like the cam chain is slapping the plastic cam cover.

The MINI engine IS noisy compared to some other engines due to hydraulic tappets, rockers instead of all direct actuation, and that plastic cam cover.

I like it.

 

Yep it's normal. Even the engine noise of my JCW sounds like a quiet diesel.
I much prefer the engine noise of my old R53 MCS. But the JCW's exhaust can't be beaten

 

Thanks for the feed back. It's unfortunate but I guess it could be worse.