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Thanks for the tip. I'd like to put another scenario out there. So the build is supposed to be complete around mid October. Having to wait this long for the build, I understand I've already invested the time. What if I can't come to terms with the dealer that's received my vehicle? Would the 2 other dealerships help take delivery of my vehicle so I can work with them instead? How would that exactly work? I'd figure the current dealer would try to extract some fees out of me or other tactics as a "penalty" for dumping them. Sales tax at this dealer is 9.25%. The one I'd like to work with if this dealer doesn't come through has their sales tax at 7.75%. I know this wouldn't be the only reason but I'm sure I could negotiate a deal where sales tax figures can be worked in to save me some money. Thanks.
I've been thinking about your scenario for a few days now. You know, we want dealers to do right by us, to be honest, and to give us a fair deal. I think we need to model the behavior we wish to see in others.
If you've made a deal, and the car is satisfactory, then off you go. If you haven't made a deal, then your only leverage would be, if a deal can't be made to your satisfaction, you walk and, despite the time you've spent waiting, you start over elsewhere. But, it shouldn't come to that. Do your homework, tell the dealer what you need to get to yes, and give the dealer an opportunity to get you there. Once they have the car in their hands, all they are thinking about is delivering that car, hopefully to you. It starts costing them flooring $$ every day it sits in their inventory. So they are motivated. Yes, they might try to convince you that you need to take their terms or lose your deposit. Should that stuff start, all you need to do is, keeping your cool, politely say, "Let's not get into what happens to my refund if we can't make a deal here. Let's stay focused on getting to terms I can say yes to. We're almost there..." And then you repeat what you need in the deal. If you're reasonable, you'll be driving off in your new, custom-ordered MINI that day. And, in the end, it's the car more than the deal. Right?
It’s the car, yes but there are reasonable negotiations to be made. I wouldn’t want to purchase the car at MSRP.
I’ve been playing with the math over these past few weeks and if the custom car build is $31,100 MSRP, the invoice should be around $28,680. I think $29,000 cap cost is fair. Now thinking about dealer incentives such as holdback, CSI, no flooring costs once I take delivery as well manufacturer rebate (currently $1,500 on MINIUSA as a previous MINI owner) and my down payment, I’m confident I can get the dealer to play in my favor. If you’re interested in the math, I can post here.
It’s the car, yes but there are reasonable negotiations to be made. I wouldn’t want to purchase the car at MSRP.
I’ve been playing with the math over these past few weeks and if the custom car build is $31,100 MSRP, the invoice should be around $28,680. I think $29,000 cap cost is fair. Now thinking about dealer incentives such as holdback, CSI, no flooring costs once I take delivery as well manufacturer rebate (currently $1,500 on MINIUSA as a previous MINI owner) and my down payment, I’m confident I can get the dealer to play in my favor. If you’re interested in the math, I can post here.
Sounds like your numbers are reasonable, indeed. Let us know how it all comes out. Best of luck.
It’s the car, yes but there are reasonable negotiations to be made. I wouldn’t want to purchase the car at MSRP.
I’ve been playing with the math over these past few weeks and if the custom car build is $31,100 MSRP, the invoice should be around $28,680. I think $29,000 cap cost is fair. Now thinking about dealer incentives such as holdback, CSI, no flooring costs once I take delivery as well manufacturer rebate (currently $1,500 on MINIUSA as a previous MINI owner) and my down payment, I’m confident I can get the dealer to play in my favor. If you’re interested in the math, I can post here.
If it is helpful, I just ordered a F56 a few weeks ago (due around the same time as yours). Dealer is giving me invoice, plus any incentives that apply (like the $1500 since I own a 2004 MCS, assuming it is still active when the car comes in). My car price is almost identical to yours. This price is consistent with what I found on TrueCar. I also had to put down the $1000 deposit, but it is refundable. It is their standard policy to make sure people are serious. FWIW, Costco pricing was Invoice + $500.
For September, MINI USA reported 3,461 vehicles sold, a decrease of 7.4 percent from the 3,736 sold in the same month a year ago. MINI sales in September were led by the MINI Countryman, with 1,411 units – a 1.5 percent increase compared September 2017. Year to date, MINI brand sales are down 1.7 percent.
MINI Certified Pre-Owned sold 1,193 vehicles in September, an increase of 40.9 percent from September 2017.Total MINI Pre-Owned sold 2,773 vehicles in September, an increase of 13.7 percent from September 2017.
What I find interesting with Mini's.. I bought my current Mini 11 years ago, Ordered the Car in Sept and recieved it on 11/11/07. That was the time with a lot of dealers were selling above MSRP - I got mine at East Bay Mini in Pleasanton, Calif... Straight retail. LOL<,, I remember, I had to beg for floor mats,,, LOL.. got a pretty basic Mini - OTD price was (still have bill of sale) $23,882.62. Fast forward to Sept 2018 - ordered a New Mini - again pretty basic but this time only three 'groups' to oder from + add some add-ons.. I picked the 'Signature' packate. I had leather on first Mini - thats why I got the Signature package - wanted the Leather... My new Mini OTD price from Same dealer was/is = $25,800. Thats a increase of $1,917.38. On face value - not too bad of an inncrease over 11 years... However, on the New Mini (That would have cost me EXTRA on the first Mini - Which I did NOT order)
16" Wheels
Blue Tooth
New Mini comes with Turbo engin - first Mini did NOT.
Thermostatically controlled A/C
Armrest
White turn signals
Extra's that could not have been ordered on 2007 Mini
rear camera
heated seats
passanger seat elevation handle
In My opinion, after 11 years, I am actually getting a better deal than I did in 2007.
This is because in 2007 - Mini was HOT and the dealers did NOT have to deal, buy it or please step aside, there are people behind you with Cash in hand, lol.
Time will tell IF the 2019 Mini is as trouble free as my 2007 has been
Last edited by harley0711; 10-07-2018 at 09:34 PM.
What I find interesting with Mini's.. I bought my current Mini 11 years ago, Ordered the Car in Sept and recieved it on 11/11/07. That was the time with a lot of dealers were selling above MSRP - I got mine at East Bay Mini in Pleasanton, Calif... Straight retail. LOL<,, I remember, I had to beg for floor mats,,, LOL.. got a pretty basic Mini - OTD price was (still have bill of sale) $23,882.62. Fast forward to Sept 2018 - ordered a New Mini - again pretty basic but this time only three 'groups' to oder from + add some add-ons.. I picked the 'Signature' packate. I had leather on first Mini - thats why I got the Signature package - wanted the Leather... My new Mini OTD price from Same dealer was/is = $25,800. Thats a increase of $1,917.38. On face value - not too bad of an inncrease over 11 years... However, on the New Mini (That would have cost me EXTRA on the first Mini - Which I did NOT order)
16" Wheels
Blue Tooth
New Mini comes with Turbo engin - first Mini did NOT.
Thermostatically controlled A/C
Armrest
White turn signals
Extra's that could not have been ordered on 2007 Mini
rear camera
heated seats
passanger seat elevation handle
In My opinion, after 11 years, I am actually getting a better deal than I did in 2007.
This is because in 2007 - Mini was HOT and the dealers did NOT have to deal, buy it or please step aside, there are people behind you with Cash in hand, lol.
Time will tell IF the 2019 Mini is as trouble free as my 2007 has been
I ordered my MINI at East Bay as well in August. It should be here (crossing fingers) for me to take delivery at the end of this month. Working with Marcos.
<div style="text-align:left;"><br /><br />I ordered my MINI at East Bay as well in August. It should be here (crossing fingers) for me to take delivery at the end of this month. Working with Marcos.</div>
<br /><br />Sent you an email with my home number,,, would love to talk to you about your new car,, been reading backwards here,, Looks like we ordered Twins,,, red, black 6 speed except you got the "S" I did not... BTW - Sales tax is from the city.county YOU LIVE IN>. I am in Turlock,, NOT the bay area, so I pay MY LOCAL sales tax...
Last edited by harley0711; 10-07-2018 at 09:43 PM.
Thought I’d update you guys here. So I got a call last Wednesday that the car made it to the dealership. It took just a little over 2 months for the custom build to complete and I’ve got to say, the car turned out great! Now it was a matter of doing business.
I had done my homework since then and was prepared to play the game. I had my preapproval letter ready from the local credit union for a 1.99% APR and research papers from Edmunds and TrueCar. The car was set at MSRP of $31,100. Apparently, when I walked in, that’s the price they thought I was going to sign for and be on my way. Well, not exactly the case. My salesman thought I ambushed him when I told him that MSRP is not what I’m looking to pay. Told me we had initially agreed upon a price on for a special order and that’s what I should be taking and I’m like, well...I did do a special order but it was because you didn’t have the car and color I wanted. I’d like to do a deal with you but not for MSRP. Looking confused, he asked me what price I was looking for and my monthly payments. I told him I wasn’t interested in focusing on monthly payments but to give me a number on the sales price of the vehicle and we can go from there.
So he went to his boss to see what he can do with options for a lease or a purchase. He came back with two lease options and a purchase option. The lease options were 3 years at 10k or 12k miles per year and purchase set at a 60 or 72 month spread with an APR of 2.4%. From $31,100 they came down $500 to $30,600 and honored the $1,500 loyalty credit as a previous MINI owner within the last 12 months. My $1,000 deposit was still on the table from a couple months ago when I had ordered the car and I was going to put down another $2,500 for a total of $3,500 for down payment. Lease option prices were a nice monthly price but it wasn’t too far off from a purchase price so I was leaning toward that option. Although, I knew we could do better.
TrueCar and Edmunds had their prices at $29,142 and $29,460 respectively. I told my salesman I’d be happy to do a deal with you if you can get me something with a $29k price tag in front of it as I wrote it down on.a sheet of paper. If you can get me that, we have a deal. I could see his lips quivering as he looked at the price I wrote down and he reiterated again that my car was a special order and that “typically we can’t do price reductions like this on special orders but I’ll see what I can do.”
About 5 minutes later he comes back with his boss, he shakes my hand and introduces himself and says the price options he’s offered me is best they can do and I basically said that it wasn’t good enough. I didn’t think I was being a jerk about it but I said if we can’t come to terms, then I’d have to ask for my refund of $1,000 back and that I’d be on my way. He gets up, tells my salesperson to prepare the refund paper and to have a nice day. Walks away. No handshake. I’m like okay, I’ll play hardball.
At this point I’m pretty furious. Ready to throw it all away. My salesman comes back with the refund paper and says a check will be mailed back to me within the week and before I sign the refund paper I pause and ask him, are you seriously going to throw away this deal over a few hundred dollars? We’re so close. That’s when I had to think whether or not to continue playing my poker hand (because I felt like they were) or to absolutely be serious, sign the paper, get up and walk out hoping they’d chase me down and reconsider my $29k offer.
I asked my salesman if the prices they offered with rock bottom and he said unfortunately yes. Again, we’re so close. I took a look at the price sheet again and ended up reconsidering. I told him I’d do the deal at $30,600 BUT, throw in all-weather floor mats and wheel locks. He went back to his boss and 5 minutes later we had a handshake deal. Whew!
I’m now the proud owner of a 2019 MINI Cooper S! Here’s a picture of me with the new ride. I’m an Air Jordan collector so I wore a matching pair of the Air Jordan 1s to go home in. Super happy! Thanks again guys for your help in the thread!
Thought I’d update you guys here. So I got a call last Wednesday that the car made it to the dealership. It took just a little over 2 months for the custom build to complete and I’ve got to say, the car turned out great! Now it was a matter of doing business.
I had done my homework since then and was prepared to play the game. I had my preapproval letter ready from the local credit union for a 1.99% APR and research papers from Edmunds and TrueCar. The car was set at MSRP of $31,100. Apparently, when I walked in, that’s the price they thought I was going to sign for and be on my way. Well, not exactly the case. My salesman thought I ambushed him when I told him that MSRP is not what I’m looking to pay. Told me we had initially agreed upon a price on for a special order and that’s what I should be taking and I’m like, well...I did do a special order but it was because you didn’t have the car and color I wanted. I’d like to do a deal with you but not for MSRP. Looking confused, he asked me what price I was looking for and my monthly payments. I told him I wasn’t interested in focusing on monthly payments but to give me a number on the sales price of the vehicle and we can go from there.
So he went to his boss to see what he can do with options for a lease or a purchase. He came back with two lease options and a purchase option. The lease options were 3 years at 10k or 12k miles per year and purchase set at a 60 or 72 month spread with an APR of 2.4%. From $31,100 they came down $500 to $30,600 and honored the $1,500 loyalty credit as a previous MINI owner within the last 12 months. My $1,000 deposit was still on the table from a couple months ago when I had ordered the car and I was going to put down another $2,500 for a total of $3,500 for down payment. Lease option prices were a nice monthly price but it wasn’t too far off from a purchase price so I was leaning toward that option. Although, I knew we could do better.
TrueCar and Edmunds had their prices at $29,142 and $29,460 respectively. I told my salesman I’d be happy to do a deal with you if you can get me something with a $29k price tag in front of it as I wrote it down on.a sheet of paper. If you can get me that, we have a deal. I could see his lips quivering as he looked at the price I wrote down and he reiterated again that my car was a special order and that “typically we can’t do price reductions like this on special orders but I’ll see what I can do.”
About 5 minutes later he comes back with his boss, he shakes my hand and introduces himself and says the price options he’s offered me is best they can do and I basically said that it wasn’t good enough. I didn’t think I was being a jerk about it but I said if we can’t come to terms, then I’d have to ask for my refund of $1,000 back and that I’d be on my way. He gets up, tells my salesperson to prepare the refund paper and to have a nice day. Walks away. No handshake. I’m like okay, I’ll play hardball.
At this point I’m pretty furious. Ready to throw it all away. My salesman comes back with the refund paper and says a check will be mailed back to me within the week and before I sign the refund paper I pause and ask him, are you seriously going to throw away this deal over a few hundred dollars? We’re so close. That’s when I had to think whether or not to continue playing my poker hand (because I felt like they were) or to absolutely be serious, sign the paper, get up and walk out hoping they’d chase me down and reconsider my $29k offer.
I asked my salesman if the prices they offered with rock bottom and he said unfortunately yes. Again, we’re so close. I took a look at the price sheet again and ended up reconsidering. I told him I’d do the deal at $30,600 BUT, throw in all-weather floor mats and wheel locks. He went back to his boss and 5 minutes later we had a handshake deal. Whew!
I’m now the proud owner of a 2019 MINI Cooper S! Here’s a picture of me with the new ride. I’m an Air Jordan collector so I wore a matching pair of the Air Jordan 1s to go home in. Super happy! Thanks again guys for your help in the thread!
Interesting story. Car does look nice. My twin (Order, minus black srip and S) in looking at your figures. MSRP at $31;100. You said they offered you a price of 30,600 and they would honor the $1500 loyalty credit? That should have brought the price down to $29,100. Am I right? You were hoping for $29K? So, at the end, the dealer was stalling at $100?? Did I miss something?
When I ordered the car 2 months ago I had only put a $1,000 down as a deposit. We did not set a negotiated price as I was going to do that when I picked up the vehicle. I wanted to negotiate the price of the vehicle before any rebates/loyalty dealer credit was added. That was my goal. I didn’t offer $30,600 that was them. I let them give me a figure first. I came back at $29k and that’s when they settled with their best and final at $500 under MSRP. It was either I play my hand and walk away and hope they chase after me but they played the game well. Essentially, I reconsidered.
Loyalty credit was $1500 and they gave an additional $500 so they basically reduced the price $2k from MSRP. I figure a few hundred and some added incentives (wheel locks and all-weather floor mats) was enough for me to close the deal with a 2.9% interest rate. In the end, I still think it was a fair deal and I’m comfortable with the payments and outcome. That’s all that matters.
MJO23DAN, I'm sorry you had that kind of experience there. That should never happen to a customer. Even for an ordered car, the salesman should be sure to have an agreement on pricing before ordering a car. I'm always saddened when I hear a story like this where someone feels like they had to 'play a game' to get what they want. Good on you for being prepared, but you should not have had to go through that. Glad you have your new MINI!
Very interesting story. I ordered a ‘custom’ Mini from this same dealer. My order was placed in September and is currently in route. I first called and talk to 2 other dealers about the car I wanted to order. I have been a Mini owner since 2007. Back then I ordered my Mini. Back then there was NO Dealing on Price, it was , what it was,,, Mini’s were very popular. I still have that Mini. Back to my Dealing with East Bay Mini. After talking to 2 other dealers And doing all my homework on line. Learned in September there were 2 Promos being offered ( past customer / Loyality & a finance rebate ) with this info, I called East Bay Mini. Started a relationship with the dealer. After several calls & Texts. We came to a deal // at that point, I drove to the dealer, signed & made the $1k deposit. At that signing we Both knew what the deal was and I walked out with paperwork in hand. How the Poster did his deal??? I just know how detailed my deal was. My car is due to arrive sometime in the nex 2/3 weeks. I would think IF I were to arrive to pick up my car and say, I want a better deal?? It would be a surprise to the dealer //// again, I do Not know the details to the Poster.
I ordered from Mini in Loveland in June. I had to put $2.5K down but I signed the rate sheet then showing the price. They did give me $1K off at delivery though unasked, which was nice, and I qualified for the 1.9% financing offer Mini was running in July.
First thing I did was use the internet to search down a bunch of Minis that had been "executive cars" ... there were quite a few out there with about 5K miles on them. I ended up with a fully loaded F55 S with original sticker price of $37,500 (I think) for $24,500. Perfect condition. Original warranty. Worked with a dealer. It meant I had to be willing to travel to get it ... but it was a fun adventure to take a flight from Minnesota to Detroit, grab a bus to Ann Arbor, an Uber to the dealer, and pick up my new baby and drive it home! Of course, you need to be flexible on color and some other things.
Thanks to MJO23DAN for giving us the play-by-play on his ordered car adventure.
.
First of all, it is a very nice MINI, MJO! Congratulations.
We all learn from each other's adventures in car dealer land.
We should commend MJO for getting the best deal possible under the circumstances. The only option left was to walk away from a really nice custom ordered MINI, which seems like cutting off one's nose, so it was probably wiser to go a couple of rounds, which he did, and then settle on a deal without quibbling over a few hundred bucks. Plus, value was added with the accessories he negotiated. Nicely done.
The main take away I have is what we all knew going in. Nail the out-the-door price BEFORE any $ changes hands.
We understand that incentives and rates change monthly so it is not always possible to lock everything in on a custom order. But it is possible, and highly recommended, to get "not to exceed" language written onto any final deal sheet BEFORE the order is placed. If a dealer won't do a "not to exceed," then the next best is, "all available offers at time of delivery."
Either way, the selling price of the MINI, before incentives are deducted, needs to be nailed before the check book comes out.
And, for deposits, many recommend using a credit card rather than a check, because it's sometimes easier to dispute a credit card charge than it is to wait for a refund check. If a deposit needs to be refunded and that deposit was put on a credit card, you can insist that they run the charge back right then and there -- no BS about we need to wait for approval from the finance department or whatever. If you need to get a deposit back (because everything else you tried to do to get a deal fell apart), and the dealer hesitates or stalls, just whip out your phone in front of the dealer, call the credit card company, get a live customer service rep on the line and say, "I'm at XYZ motors and we've agreed they will refund my credit card charge of $X,XXX dated XX/XX/20XX, and they are refusing to run the charge back and they're telling me I need to wait a week before they can do it. I'm not comfortable waiting. What do we need to do here to get that credited back to my account now?" If you used the right credit card, you'll get the support you need.
Anyway, MJO23DAN avoided all that, salvaged his deal, and motored off in a hot red MINI. With floor mats thrown in. Motor On! And never show the money until the numbers are right.
Thanks to MJO23DAN for giving us the play-by-play on his ordered car adventure.
.
First of all, it is a very nice MINI, MJO! Congratulations.
We all learn from each other's adventures in car dealer land.
We should commend MJO for getting the best deal possible under the circumstances. The only option left was to walk away from a really nice custom ordered MINI, which seems like cutting off one's nose, so it was probably wiser to go a couple of rounds, which he did, and then settle on a deal without quibbling over a few hundred bucks. Plus, value was added with the accessories he negotiated. Nicely done.
The main take away I have is what we all knew going in. Nail the out-the-door price BEFORE any $ changes hands.
We understand that incentives and rates change monthly so it is not always possible to lock everything in on a custom order. But it is possible, and highly recommended, to get "not to exceed" language written onto any final deal sheet BEFORE the order is placed. If a dealer won't do a "not to exceed," then the next best is, "all available offers at time of delivery."
Either way, the selling price of the MINI, before incentives are deducted, needs to be nailed before the check book comes out.
And, for deposits, many recommend using a credit card rather than a check, because it's sometimes easier to dispute a credit card charge than it is to wait for a refund check. If a deposit needs to be refunded and that deposit was put on a credit card, you can insist that they run the charge back right then and there -- no BS about we need to wait for approval from the finance department or whatever. If you need to get a deposit back (because everything else you tried to do to get a deal fell apart), and the dealer hesitates or stalls, just whip out your phone in front of the dealer, call the credit card company, get a live customer service rep on the line and say, "I'm at XYZ motors and we've agreed they will refund my credit card charge of $X,XXX dated XX/XX/20XX, and they are refusing to run the charge back and they're telling me I need to wait a week before they can do it. I'm not comfortable waiting. What do we need to do here to get that credited back to my account now?" If you used the right credit card, you'll get the support you need.
Anyway, MJO23DAN avoided all that, salvaged his deal, and motored off in a hot red MINI. With floor mats thrown in. Motor On! And never show the money until the numbers are right.
As always, thank you so much for your guidance and your extended explanation on the scenarios. This thread (along with a few YouTube videos) have helped me get back into a MINI. It’s been almost 2 weeks since I’ve had the car and I wake up every morning looking forward to a drive. Never a dull moment!
For October, MINI USA reported 3,166 vehicles sold, a decrease of 13.7 percent from the 3,669 sold in the same month a year ago. MINI sales in October were led by the MINI Countryman, with 1,070 units. Year-to-date sales of the MINI Countryman have increased 29.1 percent compared to the first 10 months of 2017. Year to date, MINI brand sales are down 2.9 percent.
MINI Certified Pre-Owned sold 983 vehicles in October, an increase of 30 percent from October 2017.Total MINI Pre-Owned sold 2,304 vehicles in October, an increase of 6.5 percent from October 2017.
As promised - Here is my deal I made on my 2019 (Justa) Started calling and talking to Local Mini dealers here in Northern Calif. This all started around the first part of September 2018. I ended up getting a pretty decent deal offer from Sacramento Mini - I had bought my first Mini from East Bay Mini in Pleasanton Calif back in 2007 (still had this Mini). I really wanted to deal with them but first wanted to get a feel of what deals if any were out there. I called and talked to the SALES manager at EB Mini - told him of the deal offer from another Mini Dealer and ask if he could offer me a deal - I did NOT tell him of the Numbers at first - he offered me a deal, I told him it would have to be a bit lower to get my business - I then shared the deal and the numbers - he beat that deal by a small amount - I decided to deal with East Bay Mini. As we were talking he ask if I had a trade in? I told him No, I was a cash buyer... He told me about a Promo offered by Mini Finance - $1500 OFF if I financed? I then learned the Mini I had to finance ($7500) to get the deal and I could pay it off early.. So, another $1500 savings..
I am posting the window sticker here. I built the car and placed my order. AFTER this deal was made.
MSRP = $27,100
OUT the DOOR price = $25,800 // This included ALL taxes and fees..
Break down.
Mini = $23,417
Taxes and fees = $1965 sales tax, $80 doc , $338 lic fee total $2,383
$23,417
$2,383
_________
$25,800 bottom line cost to me
$23,417 comes to aprox 13.5% off MSRP (Discount off MSRP = $3683)
Not the Deal of the Year but good enough for me. All of this was done Over the phone and texting BEFORE I even went to the dealer...
I went and met - made my $1,000 deposit and the build was started.. That was on September 12, 2018 and the Mini arrived at the dealer on Nov 5, I was actually on a cruise and I had talked to the dealer before we left - The dealer offered to pick us up from BART - about 3 miles from the dealer on the evening of Nov 17, We were picked up at 6:30pm and we were in our new Mini on the way home at 7:20 / these 50 min included the drive time back to the dealer and ALL paperwork signed and new mini Loaded with our luggage.
This was one of the easyest and fastest deals I have ever done - So very glad I delt with East Bay Mini - NO surprises at all and great communications along the way.
The discounts give to me were / Loyalty / Costo / Finance promo/ and them trying to beat the other dealers.
As you can see on the sticker below - NO MOON ROOF - I hate those things... by deleting that - saved $650.. Thats to this forum, I learned of that 'Delete'
Last edited by harley0711; 11-19-2018 at 10:00 AM.
08-27-2018, 11:23 AM
