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This came into my email this week. From a local dealer. Interesting:
RSVP Now and Receive $1,000 Off the Purchase of Any MINI - Only During Our Get In, Get More Sales Event!
During this event, you’ll have access to exclusive discounts and incentives available only during the Get In, Get More Sales Event! Plus, you'll receive a $15 Visa® Reward Card when you arrive - just for registering ahead of time!
As difficult as it is to believe, there are some sales trainers who advise car salespeople that, if the customer doesn't ask, don't tell them about any special offers or advertised sale pricing.
So, as you work your way through all the steps of a deal, don't forget to ask:
"Are there any other specials or sales or discount offers available that we haven't included in this deal?"
If your salesperson says there aren't any other relevant offers, have them put it in writing, as in:
"All available offers and sale pricing have been included in this deal."
Oh, yeah, I forgot that we were advertising that MINI you want as part of our weekly special
Since the entire car selling process is corrupt, not hard to believe that a salesperson would forget to mention something that lowers the overall commission they receive. Sales people no longer think long term customer retention.
The new BMW X2 may start to draw sales activity away from the MINI Countryman and Clubman and maybe even away from the Cooper 4 door.
Clearly, MINI is becoming even more of a special niche for a certain sort of enthusiast.
Also, in a world of SUVs, many who might consider MINI are a bit concerned about playing dodgeball in traffic with lumbering SUVs.
Here in Southern California, where SUVs seem to be in everyone's driveway, many drivers who don't fully grasp that they are driving 2 and 3 ton vehicles, may not realize how the laws of physics apply, especially about objects in motion tending to rear-end other cars because, driving while texting adds an extra bit of time before the distracted SUV driver finds the brakes -- and then they discover that the beast they are driving doesn't handle like a... MINI.
Escalades to the left of me, Explorers to the right, here we are
Indy Dryer and Reinbold seems to have Minis $5k+ off
While getting routine service, on showroom, they had a couple new 18 $35k minis, reduced by $5.5k on window as a start. Others around the dealer Property had big savings on windshield. Rough guess, most were 13-15% off. There may be more meat to get when talking to someone. FYI.
I have not been paying attention to pricing of late. These “windshield” pricing common as a start?
We were told today that the 2019 models are being released from the port in Maryland starting today, and they will be here early next week. Dealers will be hot on their feet to get 2018s out the door, having had such a short production year.
On the subject of commissions, pretty much every MINI I sell makes me the minimum commission, even something fully loaded. Selling a car at MSRP would get me a bonus, but there's no point trying to do that because people know about and look for incentives, and that bonus disappears. I'm much more happy showing people the cars and taking them on a drive and being the middle man between the customer and my manager, rather than trying to make myself more money at the cost of being 'a salesman'. I stay in touch with a lot of my customers and some come to meets. I find it best to do what I love doing and let the money come.
On the subject of commissions, pretty much every MINI I sell makes me the minimum commission, even something fully loaded.
From the very first original post on this thread, the issue of the role of the MA as the person in the middle has been explored. As has this bind of the "mini" commission that comes from not holding gross on a car sale.
The important things to remember are:
1. Every dollar that is ground off of the selling price of a car impacts the salesperson's paycheck the hardest;
2. The salesperson is in the middle, representing both the dealership and the interests of the potential buyer.
The challenge is to get the salesperson's interests aligned with the buyer's interests.
On more than one occasion, a car salesperson has been surprised and delighted to receive a $100 gift card from my wife, after a successful transaction has been completed. Not as a bribe, but rather as a recognition that, in the process of helping us get a very aggressive deal, the salesperson had to reduce his own payday.
I'd gladly give an MA $100 in order to save myself an extra grand on a car deal. After all, bid-ness is bid-ness.
While getting routine service, on showroom, they had a couple new 18 $35k minis, reduced by $5.5k on window as a start. Others around the dealer Property had big savings on windshield. Rough guess, most were 13-15% off. There may be more meat to get when talking to someone. FYI.
I have not been paying attention to pricing of late. These “windshield” pricing common as a start?
Assuming the maximum spread between invoice and MSRP is 8%, then deeper discounting right from the start is very aggressive and usually means there is some back-end sales support payment coming from the manufacturer to the dealer as an incentive to help dealers move metal. Often called "trunk money," these incentives are not publicized and are often some of the most protected information -- often even the front line sales staff people don't know those dollars.
So, yes, if I saw a substantial mark down on the windshield of a brand new car, that number would become the starting point of a very aggressive negotiation. My position would be that the asking price posted on the windshield represents the maximum current market price. And when the dealer told me, "We've already marked the car way below our invoice cost," I would nod and smile and think to myself, "Yeah, but your 'invoice cost' ain't your true cost or you wouldn't be offering this markdown," and I would assume that manufacturer-to-dealer support was making it possible for the dealer to maintain some gross at the deeply discounted price.
And I would assume the MA was making a minimum commission on the discounted car, so I'd need to do some work to get the MA aligned with my interests.
From the very first original post on this thread, the issue of the role of the MA as the person in the middle has been explored. As has this bind of the "mini" commission that comes from not holding gross on a car sale.
The important things to remember are:
1. Every dollar that is ground off of the selling price of a car impacts the salesperson's paycheck the hardest;
2. The salesperson is in the middle, representing both the dealership and the interests of the potential buyer.
The challenge is to get the salesperson's interests aligned with the buyer's interests.
On more than one occasion, a car salesperson has been surprised and delighted to receive a $100 gift card from my wife, after a successful transaction has been completed. Not as a bribe, but rather as a recognition that, in the process of helping us get a very aggressive deal, the salesperson had to reduce his own payday.
I'd gladly give an MA $100 in order to save myself an extra grand on a car deal. After all, bid-ness is bid-ness.
Those who have spent time using the new MINI Configurator are invited to share their experiences and their sense of whether this is an improvement or a step backwards.
My initial impression is that, if one is patient, there are ways to improve the value of a custom build. But it takes a little time to figure it all out.
I'm also wondering if MINI dealers can assist if the configurator won't allow an option matrix that a prospective buyer wants... hummm....
I'm also wondering if MINI dealers can assist if the configurator won't allow an option matrix that a prospective buyer wants... hummm....
Unfortunately, we have no more say in how a car can be built beyond what the configurator allows. On the dealer side, when we order a car after a customer configures it how they'd like, we have a simple system with option codes and boxes to be checked. There is no opportunity to add a note in a text field or request any special option.
Anything a customer might want done to their car outside of what the configurator and the factories allow, we do at our dealership. We're all about customization and we love seeing people get creative.
Appreciate your service to customers. You do get a bonus for “all tens” on the survey? Or does that bypass you also?
Originally Posted by CarFreak427
We were told today that the 2019 models are being released from the port in Maryland starting today, and they will be here early next week. Dealers will be hot on their feet to get 2018s out the door, having had such a short production year.
On the subject of commissions, pretty much every MINI I sell makes me the minimum commission, even something fully loaded. Selling a car at MSRP would get me a bonus, but there's no point trying to do that because people know about and look for incentives, and that bonus disappears. I'm much more happy showing people the cars and taking them on a drive and being the middle man between the customer and my manager, rather than trying to make myself more money at the cost of being 'a salesman'. I stay in touch with a lot of my customers and some come to meets. I find it best to do what I love doing and let the money come.
Appreciate the advice you write, as always. Yes, I have purchased multiple Genesis over the years with mfg. “coupons”. given to dealer who can use it on a sale (but associated to a specific car). Stacking this large amount, combined with other published and unpublished promotions, add starting point right close to invoice, has saved me/us into 5 figure discounts. This time the acquisition of a right off the truck 2018 G90 Ultimate V8, saved 23% off net mfg sticker. This happened last fall. And it helped that here we have 4 Genesis dealers. Genesis is cutting that back to one dealer they choose it of the 4. The winner them build a mega free standing dealership (which should have happened at the beginning like Toyota did with Lexus right off the bat). The dealer was throwing in everything to add volume as part of trying to make sure they end up with the brand.
Originally Posted by 2017All4
Assuming the maximum spread between invoice and MSRP is 8%, then deeper discounting right from the start is very aggressive and usually means there is some back-end sales support payment coming from the manufacturer to the dealer as an incentive to help dealers move metal. Often called "trunk money," these incentives are not publicized and are often some of the most protected information -- often even the front line sales staff people don't know those dollars.
So, yes, if I saw a substantial mark down on the windshield of a brand new car, that number would become the starting point of a very aggressive negotiation. My position would be that the asking price posted on the windshield represents the maximum current market price. And when the dealer told me, "We've already marked the car way below our invoice cost," I would nod and smile and think to myself, "Yeah, but your 'invoice cost' ain't your true cost or you wouldn't be offering this markdown," and I would assume that manufacturer-to-dealer support was making it possible for the dealer to maintain some gross at the deeply discounted price.
And I would assume the MA was making a minimum commission on the discounted car, so I'd need to do some work to get the MA aligned with my interests.
Bless you all that buy new cars so I can buy them for cheap 5-10 years later :D Just please keep buying/ordering manuals Big thanks!
Yup. There are many low mileage, lightly used, well equipped cars out there where the first owner has eaten the front end depreciation and, thus, the price is very friendly for the savvy second buyer.
But I stress "savvy." Some cars, even with low miles, can be thrashed by inconsiderate "first owners" who maybe leased and had their jollies at red line, knowing in a couple of years they were turning their car in. And there are many stories of people who purchased CPO 'certified' used BMWs only to discover there had been body work done and other issues that weren't covered by the CPO warranty program.
I. too, had an excellent experience with a CPO. 13,000 original local miles on a Jaguar lease return, factory new condition, less than half of MSRP and I didn't have a single warranty issue throughout over 50,000 miles in a fully kitted, really, really nice ride. Sold it back to the dealer just before the CPO warranty ended and got back half of what I spent buying it. So it can work out well on the right car.
Appreciate your service to customers. You do get a bonus for “all tens” on the survey? Or does that bypass you also?
Yes, I do. We recently moved to a survey system that is fairly widespread called NPP, which I also used when I worked at Apple. Fortunately, I get a bonus whenever I receive an 'all 10s' survey, but I don't get docked in any way when a less than perfect one comes back.
Any incentives cookin' for first week of May, anyone know? It's time to bring the new kid home from the hospital, so to speak...
Current offers on MINIUSA are through 4/30/18. The next round of advertised offers should appear next week.
I have noticed that mostly it's leases that are shown, so I'm thinking maybe there may be other direct dealer support stuff that isn't advertised???
Same advice as always-- select a car from dealer inventory or do a custom build and price it out, then calculate a low offer and see what a dealer will do for you. Sadly, the system, as it's structured now, incentivizes deal hunters to negotiate by making lowball offers. And since not everything that may be available is advertised, one has to test the bottom without knowing exactly where that bottom is.
Of all the strategies, the one I've had the best luck with is, "At these numbers I'm ready to sign the papers today." Then I have to listen to all the reasons why the dealer can't possibly meet my terms. Then I ask, "So, how close to my numbers can you get? Give me your best offer and I'll see if it makes sense to me." On several occasions, the dealer's 'best' offer got better after more negotiation.
One never knows, but, in the end, it's more about the right car than it is about grinding off that last dollar.
Hello everyone! I am one of those March CPO purchases as I picked up my '15 MCS at the end of the month. Fully spec'd minus the heads up display, nav, and the JCW appearance package, I was done and out the door for under $17K. All in all, a fair deal considering what I saw in pricing for six months prior on auto trader and the various manufacturer websites. Deal or no deal, in the end my MA took care of me, we created a friendship, I got the car I wanted, the dealership moved another unit. A win-win for everyone...except my wife, who hates the sports suspension.
...in the end, it's more about the right car than it is about grinding off that last dollar.
Unless grinding off that dollar is your idea of fun. One of the guys at work trades in his Audi periodically, and spends his entire day grinding them down. "Yeah... no. Can you sharpen your pencil a little more and get me some better numbers? Do you want to sell me this car or not?" Lather, rinse, repeat.
We like to say that every two years the Audi dealer gives him a car just to make him go away. :-)
Unless grinding off that dollar is your idea of fun.
We like to say that every two years the Audi dealer gives him a car just to make him go away. :-)
On one deal I did I called the GM at the dealership where I had purchased a car previously. I had the GM's card because he got involved in my deal (due to major grinding by me) and told me to call him for my next car. I did call him for my next car and asked if he remembered me. He said he did. I then asked if he was ready to go a few rounds again and he said we could if I wanted to but it wouldn't be necessary as he had an offer for me that would require no further negotiation. And he was right. The most insane, never-to-be-had-again deal on a stunning 2012, one-off Jag XK lease. Man that was a sweet deal on an amazing car. Same color as my Clubman, a real head-turner, but not as much fun to drive as my Clubby. Truth.
I live for the negotiation, the haggle, it's too much fun...
I hate to haggle, but I love to negotiate. Can be fun indeed.
The difference between haggling and negotiating is subtle but significant in a car deal.
In a negotiation, the seller is attempting to determine the maximum price the buyer will pay whereas the buyer is attempting to determine the minimum the seller will take.
Haggling is that back-and-forth thing where the conversation degrades to pleading and begging and posturing.
A true negotiation can only happen if the buyer has already determined that, at the right price and terms, he/she will do the deal. Thus, in a good negotiation, the buyer has clearly stated a willingness to complete the deal at specific terms. What makes it a negotiation is when the seller makes a counter-offer for the buyer to consider.
Whereas, in a haggle, the buyer says something like, "That's way too high a price," and the seller comes back with, "we can't give the car away, which is what you're asking us to do here." Total waste of time.
In a negotiation, the seller comes back with, "There's no way we can meet your proposed terms as that is below our cost and my manager won't sell below our cost," and the prospective buyer responds with, "I totally understand. I do want the car very much and I'm sure we can come to terms. You already know what I'm prepared to say yes to right now. How close can your manager get to my stated terms?"
Then the seller comes back with whatever offer they have and the buyer has a choice; accept, counter, or walk. At this point, usually one side or the other says something like, "We're so close here." And the seller usually says something like, "You want the car. We've come down way more than I've ever seen the manager do. He really wants you to drive off in this car today. I know you're not going to lose this killer dealer over just X dollars a month. This is a big win for you. I hope you can see how far we're bending to get to yes. You should take this deal before the manager realizes what he's giving away."
And the buyer then says, "I appreciate the manager's flexibility on this. Your best numbers are still higher than I had planned on spending so I'm gonna have to really think about this. As much as I love this car and want to do a deal today, I may need to do a bit more shopping before I decide if I'm willing to pay more than I had planned. But I'll tell you what. Don't make me go shopping. Just give me the deal I'm asking for and we can finish this right now. To let you know I'm serious, we can do this. I can throw another $100 into the deal... or, if you get me the numbers I'm asking for, I'll be delighted to give you, personally, a $100 gift card instead. Either way works for me, but that $100 is the max more I'm willing to part with to do this. Either we do it or I go shopping. It's up to you and your manager. Go get me my deal and tell me if I give the dealer the extra $100, or if you get a nice dinner on me."
Or the buyer says, "Meet me half way between your best numbers and my highest offer and we have a deal right now. That's farther than I planned on stretching, but I'll do it to get this done right now."
Or the buyer says, "I really appreciate all of your time and effort. I've given you the highest numbers I feel I can do on this car. If you can't do it, sad as I am, I understand. You have my contact info. I'm gonna keep shopping but, please, if you find a way to hit my numbers, call me and I'll be here to sign the papers."
This last one often is where the haggling tries to start. But, there is no haggling if the buyer is walking out the door.
We had one on a Range Rover where my wife thanked the salesman for his time and courtesy and then got up and headed for the door. I followed like an obedient puppy and, just as we were climbing into our car to drive off, a manager came trotting out waving a sheet of paper and saying, "Wait! I've got one more idea." He magically found a way to hit our numbers and we did the deal. It happens. (Our highest numbers on the Range Rover deal, while way less than the dealer wanted, were aggressive, but not unreasonable, and, thus, the deal was there.) The dealer had to understand that we weren't interested in haggling -- we had come to negotiate a car deal, and we did!
Last edited by 2017All4; Apr 29, 2018 at 12:39 PM.
Many trainers preach that car salespeople should never negotiate price on the car lot. The goal is to get a commitment from the prospect to "come on inside and my manager will show you a proposal that I know you're gonna love."
The idea, of course, is to get the customer "into the box" where the sales team can gain control of the sales process and execute the "steps to the sale" according to their selling model.
Some car buyers are horrified or intimidated, or even amused by this process. Experienced car buyers understand what's happening and appear to go with the flow, allowing the sales team to assume that everything is going according to the way the selling system is supposed to work.
As a famous baseball coach once said, "I didn't make the rule book, but I memorized it."
A knowledgeable customer can benefit from this process, even though it can get tedious at times. By remembering that the managers are watching the front line salesperson to make sure that the dealership's selling system is being done correctly, the customer knows that allowing the sales team to assume everything is under control will, in fact, take some of the tension away and remove some of the pressure that the salesperson feels to "keep the customer under control."
So, as the customer appears to be willingly complying with the salesperson -- sit here, fill this out, blah, blah, blah... what is happening is the savvy customer is setting the table for the important part of the sales negotiation.
Cooperating with the preliminaries builds rapport and helps create the conditions for that moment when the customer gently, but firmly, begins to dictate the terms of the sale.
It's more art than science, but playing the game according to the dealer's rule book can, indeed, advantage the patient, alert, and determined customer. The customer knows the numbers going in -- knows the maximum he/she will pay, knows the minimum he/she will accept for the trade-in, knows the invoice on the car to be purchased, knows the best financing terms, the maximum up front cash, and whatever else. And that customer waits as the process unfolds, even though it all could have been done in 10 minutes out on the sales lot. That ain't how the game is played and the savvy customer knows that customers didn't write the rule book.
But the savvy customer has that rule book memorized.
Big thanks!
