Well congratulations then!! You calculated an offer with which you were comfortable and the dealer accepted it. Doesn't matter if the dealer might have accepted less. You got what you asked for. Well done!!

Interestingly, I just read a post on a BMW forum by a BMW sales person who discussed how dealers often don't present their best offer first because customers will think they are paying too much, even if it's a killer deal that is offered -- so dealers prefer to work their way lower, due to customer psychology.

Point being, don't torment yourself with second-guessing.

 

 

Learn to calculate invoice. Assume there might be hidden incentives from factory to dealer that you can't see. Read all the small print on the MINI USA lease offers. REMEMBER, in a lease, the cap cost is NEGOTIATED just as if you were buying the car. So, offer low and then build the lease based on the low offer. Keep the drive offs to a minimum. Get the dealer to discount the price rather then you putting money down to lower the cap cost. You'll do just fine.

 

Check out post #7 on this thread, and read Leasing 101 in the Ask a BMW Dealer section at Bimmerfest.com. You will become an expert!!

 

Just sent you a reply via e-mail, Kodan.

It's not a bad deal, but it's not an amazing deal. It's just a deal. Regardless, it gives you a starting point for discussion, which is what those e-mails are designed to do.

 

Burnin' the midnight oil there, Zillon. You da man!

 

Also, a .00400 MF is absolutely appalling.

 

Isn't there a max margin bump that is allowed beyond which the dealer can't go?

 

Beats me, that question is literally above my pay grade.

That being said, for reference, the highest MF I've ever seen (in recent memory) is a .00210 for a ~650-ish FICO.

That should help with providing some perspective.

Most MINI MFs will fall around .00190 now (thanks, Fed).

 

Well my situation has gotten extremely interesting. I did go ahead and apply for a real finance offer. Like last time I qualify for the absolute best rates from BMWFS so that's all good.

After the .004 MF thing I went to the other dealer(dealer A to keep from confusing things) in town to see what they could do for me. With me owing approximately 2900$ in payments on current lease they were willing to completely eat that and quoted me a 36 month/10k miles lease for $467 a month. I had tried to get in contact with the .004 dealer(dealer B) and they didn't return calls so I called them and told them not to worry about it I was going to accept dealer A offer. They BEGGED me to let them try to come up with something. I agreed. So dealer b offer came in with $1100 in more rebates/incentives than the dealer A offer and they would also absorb my remaining lease payments yet their offer was exactly for the same monthly payment $467 when I balked cause that didn't seem to make sense they agreed to drop the payment to $459.

I contacted the dealer A and said hey you aren't giving me the type g $500 rebate and they came back with $450 in payments. This was all with dealer B trying to tell me the other dealers offer wasn't real and that people didn't get money off on ordered cars and they were already not making any money on the deal etc. etc. So I said I would get more info from the dealer A. Called dealer A and said hey can you put that offer in writing and they said of course.

I called dealer B and said they put it in writing and I am going with that offer. Then shortly I get call back from dealer B says hey will will go down to $434 a month in payments cause BMWFS agreed to take a less MF etc.. I am really kinda torn as to which offer to accept.

I love Dealer B service side but their sales side has left a bad taste in my mouth so far. I had issues in the past with Dealer A but they shot me out a great initial offer. End of the day though what started out as a $1000 down 36month 10k lease for $467 with no rollover of remaining payments is coming out as a $434 a month on 1k down and 36mth10k

 

Sounds like your tenacity and focus are paying off for you.
Dealers need to sell cars. Serious buyers have unusual leverage.
The trick is to keep all the numbers straight and, as you are wisely doing, get every promise in writing!

Good luck and keep us posted on what is turning out to be a most interesting deal-making process!!

 

I think I had two very big things working to my advantage. First I still have 6 months left on my original lease so while I am serious about wanting to get a new one if the numbers didn't work I had zero issue walking. Second while I feel bad playing the two dealerships against each other that made my preferred dealer work with me. The preferred dealer lost some goodwill with me but their service after a sale has been beyond fantastic. Going to go Monday and put the deposit they want(will turn into the down money) for ordering the car down and get my price guarantee paperwork.

Now or just have to keep from buying all the after sale stuff the finance guys are going to want to add.

 

I felt the same way. Dealer was asking something north of $34k; I emailed an offer laying out my cards and being utterly frank: sell it to me for $30k including fees but excluding Mass sales tax & registration and I would buy it on Friday. I did not really care what combination of incentives they used to reach that price, and specifically asked for MINi's $500 Owner Loyalty discount and the then-current $1750 discount from MINIUSA.com. They took it and we did it.

Would they have taken less? Maybe! The car had been on the lot for ~15 months. They were losing money in that car every month it wasn't sold.

I calculated dealer invoice at $31k on that car's particular combination of options. The $2250 in factory incentives I mentioned above provided them plenty of room to make a modest profit on the car at my offer (plus whatever back end kickback they might earn from MINIUSA).

I am certain could have gotten another $1000 off the car if I wanted to push them to cut to the bone — that car was just not drawing interest from their usual buying market.

(My Motoring Adviser speculated it was the combination of color and options. Shoppers with budget to spend on lots of options tend to buy the more muted colors. But the Volcanic Orange seems to attract the basic model buyers. This car was caught between them — too loud for premium buyers, too highly optioned for entry buyers.)

In any case, I was happy, they were happy, everyone won.

 

 

Sounds great. Now, if you haven't already, sit down quietly at home and carefully run all the numbers. If you've decided to lease, use an online lease calculator, like the simple one at leaseguide. MAKE SURE you understand all the numbers -- how discounts and incentives are being applied. MAKE SURE you can independently hit the same numbers they are giving you. Knowing all is correct and in the right place will enhance your confidence.

Credit card deposits are often recommended if a dealer requires a deposit to do a special order -- but that's a choice depending on your gut and your circumstances.

Add-ons like protection packages can be put together at time of delivery. If you think any of that pricey stuff will be of value to you, ask the dealer for his best numbers on anything you think you might want and tell them you will make your final decision at deliver time -- this gives you time to research prices and value and you can read the fine print to learn what is or isn't included in any of the add-on packages.

Just make sure, before anything is signed or any deposits are given, you've got solid numbers on what you're paying for the car and GO OVER the VIR/build sheet to triple-check that the order is coded correctly with exactly what you want on the car.

Looks like you're about there. Congratulations.

 

I already did some crunching on their numbers. They sent me their actually lease checklist and it looks kosher. As far as the deposit I will just cut them a check since I plan to roll that to the money due at signing.

Is is it common for a dealer to try and change numbers after you place an order? What document should I look for to sign? Would signing off on a lease
checklist be enough? Or should it be something else?

 

Ok I did a couple of lease calculators and I wasn't able to get any of them to come out exactly how their lease worksheet numbers did BUT they all were within a few dollars a month payment wise (one was under a few dollars one was almost right on another was over about 15 dollars). So yeah their numbers look good. Looks like I am getting a .00191 MF out of the deal. All appears good in lease land now. :D Now I just need to keep sharp and not screw it up in the homestretch.

 

.00191 is on the higher end of MINI Money Factor -- not a bad rate but your payment will come down some if you can get closer to .00151, which I believe is the special advertised rate used for lease examples on the MINI USA web site. Might want to inquire if they can do any better on MF -- reference the advertised special rates.

Make sure the miles per year are correct and make sure it is clear how the acquisition fee and taxes and any other fees are paid for. Are they in the drive offs or are they folded into the monthly lease payment?

The ideal lease has the acquisition, taxes, fees, and first month's lease payment for the drive offs. The idea is to have little or no "down payment" which is cap reduction. You want most or all of cap reduction to come from dealer discounts and factory incentives.

Once you get it nailed, and submit the signed credit app, a simple email to your MA memorializing the agreement should more than cover any need to lock in the deal terms. That's a good opportunity to clarify your understanding that you get the rate lock or better if incentives/special offers are better at time of delivery.

What you can't do is cherry pick some incentives from what's available now and some from what's available at delivery time -- it's sort of an either/or deal. Your dealer can explain your options, which is a useful conversation to have now -- a conversation that can then be memorialized in the email.

Do all of that, and you will be eligible for an official Art of the Deal decoder ring!!! Best of luck -- now comes the waiting for the car and following it across the pond and then the thrill of driving it off into the sunset!! Congratulations.

 

They said they had already got me a reduction in MF from Mini supposedly and the other dealer in town also quoted their deal with the .00191 and I think someone else said .00191 was about what they were going for lately just a few posts up the page.





The taxes were capitalized as was the acquisition fee according to the lease checklist. Other fees like tile and license and first months payments were actually coming from part of my down payment I was told. That was the dealers reasoning for why my lease checklist didn't list out some of the title or other fees and showed a smaller down payment.

Pretty sure that's how it was structured. Except they did capitalize the acquisition fee.


They keep telling me that there is no or better terms. If something comes better this is the deal and any moneys later would be to help them offset the 2100$ or so remaining payments on my lease that would still be due on delivery of the car.


Hmm this is a lot more to think of and deal with I thought I already had the Art of the Deal decoder ring box tops already collected and ready to mail off. Looks like I have some more Wheaties to eat( and I hate Wheaties)...

Why does this process have to be so horrible and why does it seem like my sales people are misleading me all over the place.

 

Some things to remember:

When a dealer takes in a lease return, they contact MINI and get a buy figure which we understand is LESS than the actual residual payoff amount listed in the lease contract.

When doing a new lease or purchase and the dealer offers any sort of pull ahead deal to get you out of a current lease, unless you are shown the hard numbers of how that works, it is not possible to know if the dealer is paying MINI less than the amount owed on the remaining lease. So there's no way to know if you're getting a discount or not if the dealer claims that instead of discounting your new car they are eating the remaining lease payments.

BEST WAY to negotiate a pull ahead deal is to nail the cap cost/selling price of the new car, then fold in rebates, then negotiate how the pull ahead folds in.

And check ALL the math.

 

"When a dealer takes in a lease return, they contact MINI and get a buy figure which we understand is LESS than the actual residual payoff amount listed in the lease contract."

How can MINI Financial determine the buy figure without knowing the actual condition of the turned-in car?

 

Does seem to defy logic, doesn't it?

The dealer is looking at the car and the dealer makes the decision to buy the car from MINI, so MINI is just saying yes, collecting money, and clearing a lease off their books, hopefully to be replaced by a new lease, at a higher interest rate, while collecting another $925 lease acquisition fee.

The dealer is in the middle. The dealer tells MINI the mileage and MINI tells the dealer what they will take for the car, and if all the parts of the deal make sense to the dealer, the dealer gets a low-mileage car they have already checked out and they know where they are in the total deal -- and they will make money, with the possibility of making more on the resale of the leased car they are buying, at a discount, from MINI USA. Wheels within wheels.

 

So, MINI USA, and every other manufacturer and lease company in the USA, has access to amazing, real time auction data. THEY KNOW EXACTLY what a pink 2015 F56 with purple interior and 26,748 miles in Omaha is worth at wholesale auction this week. And they know if that same car might be worth $427 more in Florida than in Omaha.

Carmax has this down to a science -- they know if it's worth shipping a car from a Carmax location in California to a Carmax in Kalamazoo to net $200 more, after all shipping costs.

So, when you bring in your MINI, with tears in your eyes, at lease end, MINI USA knows in a matter of minutes what that car will sell for at the wholesale auction anywhere in the good old USA, within a close enough margin to determine what they will ask the dealer who is taking in that MINI to pay. The dealer ALSO knows what he/she can buy the car for at auction.

This is where sales managers and general managers earn their keep. They are tracking lots of data points. How close to hitting a bonus goal for the month or the quarter or the year are they? How much net, including back end and trunk and gross margin over invoice and dollars from bumping the finance rate, and, and, and....????

When a customer walks in and wants the red JCW convertible that's sitting on the showroom, the one that has been sitting there for over 60 days, the wheels start spinning. The average customer is trying to remember how to calculate invoice and is trying to screw up the courage to ask for $500 over invoice, believing he has zero equity in his lease return.

The shameless reader of this thread takes a cup of free delicious dealership java, enjoys a little caffeine jolt and says, if the lease turn in can cover all drive offs and if the dealer will write a new lease at the buy rate money factor advertised on the MINI USA web site, and if the dealer can go $500 back of invoice and then deduct rebates from that number, they have a deal.

The sales manager looks at all that big data, takes a swig of his own cup of high test dealer coffee, and shoots a first pencil offer to the customer -- an offer nowhere close to the insane deal the customer has proposed or, maybe, really close if it's the right time and the right day and the data tells the manager there are dollars in some far-off corner of the many moving parts that will make this a doable deal.

Big data = big deals for Zen Motorers. Truth.

 

You have so much knowledge and are so willing to share it. Do you mind if one asks what you do for a living? I think I am going full steam ahead with my deal I love the car I am getting and I can afford the payment . You are right I could maybe grind some more out of it but end of the day I am done with the sales side of the deal. Ready to start trying to figure out how to track my build and start being impatient for my baby to arrive.

Thanks again @2017All4 and @Zillon you guys were very generous with your time.
OH BTW I don't think I posted what I am getting. I am getting a 2018 Moonwalk Grey S 2 Door Hardtop / Automatic with paddles / Black roof and mirrors/ 16 inch black rims / Spoiler / Led Headlamps / Technology package / Harman Kardon Stereo / Heads Up Display

 

.00191 is the going MF rate now. .00151 is not.

Just a FYI.

Kodan, didn't get a chance to review the PMs until now - did you firm up your deal?