Drivetrain M62 dyno numbers
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6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
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My car only dyno'd at 170whp. This was on a Dyno Dynamics dyno, so I don't know how effecient they are. The car was a stock 06 JCW. That being said I believe 180 whp may be possible withh just a pully, a decent intake and exaust.
I'm not trying to be an *** and spiderX has a wonder full car I wish I had half the mods he does. Here's my thoughts I know the whole M62 thing is still in its early stages and this is another comparsion to Honda's but here goes.
Honda owners can buy the intake, headders, exaust, cams,ignition and tune. Total price if you get good parts can easily be $2,000-2,500. Hp increase depending on engine lets say 35-40 whp, BUT you could just take the same amount of money buy or built a turbo kit and make easily 75-150 whp or more with a good tune on a bone stock engine. I've seen it done so many times. It seems rather odd when you look back at what you spent trying to make power with mild bolt on's when someone else spends the same amount and makes more power.
What I guess I'm trying to say is that I was very happy and intrested in the M62 and still am, but we add all these nickle and dime mods to make some what modest numbers and keep the super charger, and newer members can look at tuls video and the fireball car and can make 250 plus for a few hundred dollas more or even less than what some of us members payed for our mods. True the P/P head and intake mainfold the exaust and a few other parts will help the car make more power but over all a stock MCS with a $3,500 turbo kit will own a $3,500 moded mini and it apears the M62 mini as well. I have learned from my mini owner ship that turbo > S/C.
I hope the M62 makes more power, and we all say power isn't every thing but we wouldn't be trying to sticking a bigger s/c on a engine to make the car a more rounded daily driver. So good luck with greater numbers,I'm rooting for you guys.
I'm not trying to be an *** and spiderX has a wonder full car I wish I had half the mods he does. Here's my thoughts I know the whole M62 thing is still in its early stages and this is another comparsion to Honda's but here goes.
Honda owners can buy the intake, headders, exaust, cams,ignition and tune. Total price if you get good parts can easily be $2,000-2,500. Hp increase depending on engine lets say 35-40 whp, BUT you could just take the same amount of money buy or built a turbo kit and make easily 75-150 whp or more with a good tune on a bone stock engine. I've seen it done so many times. It seems rather odd when you look back at what you spent trying to make power with mild bolt on's when someone else spends the same amount and makes more power.
What I guess I'm trying to say is that I was very happy and intrested in the M62 and still am, but we add all these nickle and dime mods to make some what modest numbers and keep the super charger, and newer members can look at tuls video and the fireball car and can make 250 plus for a few hundred dollas more or even less than what some of us members payed for our mods. True the P/P head and intake mainfold the exaust and a few other parts will help the car make more power but over all a stock MCS with a $3,500 turbo kit will own a $3,500 moded mini and it apears the M62 mini as well. I have learned from my mini owner ship that turbo > S/C.
I hope the M62 makes more power, and we all say power isn't every thing but we wouldn't be trying to sticking a bigger s/c on a engine to make the car a more rounded daily driver. So good luck with greater numbers,I'm rooting for you guys.
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 0
From: Infinity and beyond
Spider... the otehr day you mentioned getting an R56... DOOOO IT! I had some expirence with one... recently.... and well... it will dominate the market for folks liek you who don't wanna take off the SC to gain power... bang for buck(for the mild modder) it will kick the R53 in the teeth...
now for guys like me... it will prolly be the same amount of $... but so what... same $ huge power... WOOOT!
now for guys like me... it will prolly be the same amount of $... but so what... same $ huge power... WOOOT!
Thread Starter
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6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 0
Spider... the otehr day you mentioned getting an R56... DOOOO IT! I had some expirence with one... recently.... and well... it will dominate the market for folks liek you who don't wanna take off the SC to gain power... bang for buck(for the mild modder) it will kick the R53 in the teeth...
now for guys like me... it will prolly be the same amount of $... but so what... same $ huge power... WOOOT!
now for guys like me... it will prolly be the same amount of $... but so what... same $ huge power... WOOOT!
the car is the best it has ever been and now i am starting to think 05-06 gearbox with the LSD.... or a Quaiffe
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Dave just called an he achieved 225 whp w 190 tq this afternoon..... he is currently on the way to Atlanta from Greenville.... he says the power is the smoothest he has ever felt it... I will ask him to post the graphs when he can
all in all I am very pleased but still looking for 10 more.... we keep finding things that can be improved
correction Sat morning .... Dave said the tq was 191
all in all I am very pleased but still looking for 10 more.... we keep finding things that can be improved
correction Sat morning .... Dave said the tq was 191
Banned
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,640
Likes: 0
From: Flitwick UK
This is simply untrue. It is not that I think the people who keep this myth going are disingenuous but rather they are misinformed. I spent yesterday studying the dyno data of a tuner in south Jersey who has dynoed over 30 MCSs on the same dyno. He has found only a 5 WHP range and that is not statistically significant. It can all be attributed to dyno variables and he does the best he can to control them; IAT being the most important. His findings are similar to Lucky Dog Garage’s and mine: these cars make about a max of 145 WHP. Keep in mind…
We know that different dyno's read differently, especially chassis dyno's. Some of the inertia wheel chassis dyno's have the air temp sensor located inside the computer sitting near the dyno which results in very inaccurate air temperatures. Some chassis dyno's are purely inertia type. This means they are dependent upon how quickly the vehicle can accelerate the drum from one speed to another. If the bearings the drum is mounted on change their friction factor, it will change the vehicles ability to accelerate it. The owner of the dyno has no ability to measure that. If the owner wants to create some high numbers all he has to do is tell the software the wheels weighs more than it does, and bingo... you've got higher numbers. Owners of chassis dyno's that use eddy current brakes do not have calibration devices to calibrate the torque the eddy current is absorbing in the range of torque being seen at the wheels. These owners are not provided with any method or explanation how to properly calibrate the dyno for the torque range they are using.
Because engines respond to inlet air temp, barometric pressure, and humidity it is necessary to record those values and with normally aspirated engines apply a correction factor in an attempt to create a level playing field. But the validity of using a horsepower correction factor with a positive pressure inlet engine (as in supercharged or turbo charged) is a debatable issue.
We know that different dyno's read differently, especially chassis dyno's. Some of the inertia wheel chassis dyno's have the air temp sensor located inside the computer sitting near the dyno which results in very inaccurate air temperatures. Some chassis dyno's are purely inertia type. This means they are dependent upon how quickly the vehicle can accelerate the drum from one speed to another. If the bearings the drum is mounted on change their friction factor, it will change the vehicles ability to accelerate it. The owner of the dyno has no ability to measure that. If the owner wants to create some high numbers all he has to do is tell the software the wheels weighs more than it does, and bingo... you've got higher numbers. Owners of chassis dyno's that use eddy current brakes do not have calibration devices to calibrate the torque the eddy current is absorbing in the range of torque being seen at the wheels. These owners are not provided with any method or explanation how to properly calibrate the dyno for the torque range they are using.
Because engines respond to inlet air temp, barometric pressure, and humidity it is necessary to record those values and with normally aspirated engines apply a correction factor in an attempt to create a level playing field. But the validity of using a horsepower correction factor with a positive pressure inlet engine (as in supercharged or turbo charged) is a debatable issue.
. Lets see, we would need someone with deep pockets 
perhaps Bill Gates ? Saudi Prince ? Dam, I was looking forward to your "Marketplace" post
PS - love the numbers look forward to the graphs.
My car only dyno'd at 170whp. This was on a Dyno Dynamics dyno, so I don't know how effecient they are. The car was a stock 06 JCW. That being said I believe 180 whp may be possible withh just a pully, a decent intake and exaust.
I'm not trying to be an *** and spiderX has a wonder full car I wish I had half the mods he does. Here's my thoughts I know the whole M62 thing is still in its early stages and this is another comparsion to Honda's but here goes.
Honda owners can buy the intake, headders, exaust, cams,ignition and tune. Total price if you get good parts can easily be $2,000-2,500. Hp increase depending on engine lets say 35-40 whp, BUT you could just take the same amount of money buy or built a turbo kit and make easily 75-150 whp or more with a good tune on a bone stock engine. I've seen it done so many times. It seems rather odd when you look back at what you spent trying to make power with mild bolt on's when someone else spends the same amount and makes more power.
What I guess I'm trying to say is that I was very happy and intrested in the M62 and still am, but we add all these nickle and dime mods to make some what modest numbers and keep the super charger, and newer members can look at tuls video and the fireball car and can make 250 plus for a few hundred dollas more or even less than what some of us members payed for our mods. True the P/P head and intake mainfold the exaust and a few other parts will help the car make more power but over all a stock MCS with a $3,500 turbo kit will own a $3,500 moded mini and it apears the M62 mini as well. I have learned from my mini owner ship that turbo > S/C.
I hope the M62 makes more power, and we all say power isn't every thing but we wouldn't be trying to sticking a bigger s/c on a engine to make the car a more rounded daily driver. So good luck with greater numbers,I'm rooting for you guys.
I'm not trying to be an *** and spiderX has a wonder full car I wish I had half the mods he does. Here's my thoughts I know the whole M62 thing is still in its early stages and this is another comparsion to Honda's but here goes.
Honda owners can buy the intake, headders, exaust, cams,ignition and tune. Total price if you get good parts can easily be $2,000-2,500. Hp increase depending on engine lets say 35-40 whp, BUT you could just take the same amount of money buy or built a turbo kit and make easily 75-150 whp or more with a good tune on a bone stock engine. I've seen it done so many times. It seems rather odd when you look back at what you spent trying to make power with mild bolt on's when someone else spends the same amount and makes more power.
What I guess I'm trying to say is that I was very happy and intrested in the M62 and still am, but we add all these nickle and dime mods to make some what modest numbers and keep the super charger, and newer members can look at tuls video and the fireball car and can make 250 plus for a few hundred dollas more or even less than what some of us members payed for our mods. True the P/P head and intake mainfold the exaust and a few other parts will help the car make more power but over all a stock MCS with a $3,500 turbo kit will own a $3,500 moded mini and it apears the M62 mini as well. I have learned from my mini owner ship that turbo > S/C.
I hope the M62 makes more power, and we all say power isn't every thing but we wouldn't be trying to sticking a bigger s/c on a engine to make the car a more rounded daily driver. So good luck with greater numbers,I'm rooting for you guys.
As for going turbo for the same cost... well you would be close i guess. But this has the potential to be a fairly simple mod. Ecu tuning isn't as nasty as with turbo and also maint could turn out to be more simple. In addition a turbo only car is a whole different beast. Meant to be driven differently, they make power differently etc etc. As for cost... I assume to push a turbo car to 250 and beyond you are talking about more then 4k worth of parts.
And as for the goal of the m62... I think looking for a stronger daily-driver is most likley the point of this mod. A supercharged car that pulls hard in the area's that you want it to for toughe or mountain driving seems like what this car is good for. Realistically where I drive my car daily (nc parkway's and the dragon 2 hours from my home) a high hp car with a short powerband is all but worthless. This car provides the advantages of a supercharged vehicle with a sampling of the horse power of a turbo car with potentially less headache.
It's all about what you are going for... and this form of induction charging is meant for a specific kind of customer looking for a specific kind of power delivery and look to their engine bay...
I for one am still interested.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,135
Likes: 0
From: Metro NY
I just started to use the Dynapack at PowerTech in Rockaway, NJ. Mike and Keith are the owners and interestingly they used to work with Randy Webb at Promotion Motorsports in Morristown, NJ.
Today’s numbers: 216.6 WHP; 178.5 ft/lb torque
2005 MCS, CAI, 19% pulley, matched intake runner, DMH cylinder head +1/+1, Schrick cam, Borla cat back, custom tuning.
Temperature: 64 deg F
Humidity: 21%
Barometric pressure: 29.50 in-Hg
IAT: 148 deg F
Water temp: 202 deg F
Oil temp: 205 deg F
5W-30 Mobile 1
4th gear
Stock gearbox fluid
93 octane
Today’s numbers: 216.6 WHP; 178.5 ft/lb torque
2005 MCS, CAI, 19% pulley, matched intake runner, DMH cylinder head +1/+1, Schrick cam, Borla cat back, custom tuning.
Temperature: 64 deg F
Humidity: 21%
Barometric pressure: 29.50 in-Hg
IAT: 148 deg F
Water temp: 202 deg F
Oil temp: 205 deg F
5W-30 Mobile 1
4th gear
Stock gearbox fluid
93 octane
Last edited by dmh; Feb 5, 2007 at 11:06 AM.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,135
Likes: 0
From: Metro NY
That car uses MTH and Perfrect Power.
I do not have a scanner but when the owner picks up his car this evening I think he will scan the sheets and post them on NAM.
I do not have a scanner but when the owner picks up his car this evening I think he will scan the sheets and post them on NAM.
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 1
From: Northampton MA
"Today’s numbers: 216.6 WHP; 178.5 ft/lb torque"
Don those are great numbers for the DD. I'm a little suprised to see a 19% on the car. I'm also glad to see that posted some other important factors like, IAT, oil temp, oil weight, water temp, transmission oil, gear, octane as well as the regular stuff. All these extra bits make a difference on the dyno.
Don those are great numbers for the DD. I'm a little suprised to see a 19% on the car. I'm also glad to see that posted some other important factors like, IAT, oil temp, oil weight, water temp, transmission oil, gear, octane as well as the regular stuff. All these extra bits make a difference on the dyno.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,135
Likes: 0
From: Metro NY
I just did what I was asked to do!
What seems to be holding back the M62 kit is not the parts and bolting them on but rather the tuning. Until those who are selling/developing the kit want to invest in ecu parameter changing it will never change. Complicating things further is the fact that many cars have different engine modifications: not all heads, valves, cams, and exhaust systems were created equal.
What seems to be holding back the M62 kit is not the parts and bolting them on but rather the tuning. Until those who are selling/developing the kit want to invest in ecu parameter changing it will never change. Complicating things further is the fact that many cars have different engine modifications: not all heads, valves, cams, and exhaust systems were created equal.
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,135
Likes: 0
From: Metro NY
Certainly. I put a Wegner Stage 2 head and Stahl exhaust system on one back in December.
5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
I just started to use the Dynapack at PowerTech in Rockaway, NJ. Mike and Keith are the owners and interestingly they used to work with Randy Webb at Promotion Motorsports in Morristown, NJ.
Today’s numbers: 216.6 WHP; 178.5 ft/lb torque
2005 MCS, CAI, 19% pulley, matched intake runner, DMH cylinder head +1/+1, Schrick cam, Borla cat back, custom tuning.
Temperature: 64 deg F
Humidity: 21%
Barometric pressure: 29.50 in-Hg
IAT: 148 deg F
Water temp: 202 deg F
Oil temp: 205 deg F
5W-30 Mobile 1
4th gear
Stock gearbox fluid
93 octane
Today’s numbers: 216.6 WHP; 178.5 ft/lb torque
2005 MCS, CAI, 19% pulley, matched intake runner, DMH cylinder head +1/+1, Schrick cam, Borla cat back, custom tuning.
Temperature: 64 deg F
Humidity: 21%
Barometric pressure: 29.50 in-Hg
IAT: 148 deg F
Water temp: 202 deg F
Oil temp: 205 deg F
5W-30 Mobile 1
4th gear
Stock gearbox fluid
93 octane
i was always under the impression that you owned a dyno?
What exactly is Perfect Power? And, can you tell us the exact dyno figures for the M62 car you tuned? It would serve as a comparison to what DDM is working on...
The power of search engines!
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,135
Likes: 0
From: Metro NY
Even though I do not have any interest in developing a kit for the M62 I don’t think the exact numbers I achieved are appropriate to post. What I will say is that they are more than 235 and less than 275. But to get to that level you’ll need some go-fast pieces such as a modified fuel delivery system, a serious intercooler, a head with 2mm oversized exhaust valves, smaller than 6mm stems shaped for power, a purpose designed header and exhaust system, …This was a full-on BBR-GTi system in the beginning (or at least that is what I was told).
Last edited by dmh; Feb 5, 2007 at 04:49 PM.