I'd have to say I wouldn't be overly impressed either...

BUT...

Keep in mind where SpiderX started. From start to finish where he is, is quite impressive. The reason: Most S's are going to dyno stock in the 140-165 range at the wheels. Sounds crazy but go back through NAM, I think it was Andy or Helix (one of the vendors at any rate) who found that there was such disparity between cars. Spiders car performing at the lower end of the spectrum before he began modding. If his car was on the higher end of the stock scale, He probably would be in the 230+ range.

At one of our dyno days, I personally witnessed 6M Cooper S vary between 148 and 163. Thats a spread of 15whp. So throwing a pulley on a car that dynos strong stock at 166 and seeing an increase to 180, might be possible, I am quite certain it wont be the norm.

The other thing to consider is that the other guy is making 190whp/168tq with pretty much no mods other than the s/c. He doesnt need to add a pulley to the 62. One of the reasons to go to the bigger s/c is so you don't have to. If that guy throws a head on his otherwise stockish M62 car, Id bet he would see 215whp/180tq no problem. And because he no longer spins the water pump at insane speeds, he is running cooler, and since he isnt driving the hell out of the blower, its running cool as well. I think we almost all know cooler air makes more power (and usually helps things last longer).

Keep this in mind when you consider power output.





As far as the 180whp with only a 15% thats a dam tall order.

 

me too I have been hoping for 250/225 when we started this .....

we have not raised the rev limiter yet and that will probably get the next 5 whp...... I have to think that even though I have all the mods that for some reason my car is not a particularly strong MCS to start with....

WE will examine more aspects of the engine in the coming weeks and months to look for possible small issues that will make a difference....

A pulley car at 180 does not feel at all like the 62....i have been there.... the tq numbers are really significant as to how the car feels...... I saw someone post 300 whp but the tq number was very low through most of the power band..... great for the drag strip but not much fun (IMO) other wise....

I get PMs from a lot of people Dr. Obnxs, Ryhphile, Tuls, too many to mention and many of them have suggestions that we examine..... the one thing about my car is that it seems like most of the NAM community has adopted it as a poster child..

that being said.... Dave did a great tune ... he has a real talent.... and he spent an incredible amount of time..... if he chooses he could make some $ tuning cars..... probably not the best use of his time but he did a great job

 

This is simply untrue. It is not that I think the people who keep this myth going are disingenuous but rather they are misinformed. I spent yesterday studying the dyno data of a tuner in south Jersey who has dynoed over 30 MCSs on the same dyno. He has found only a 5 WHP range and that is not statistically significant. It can all be attributed to dyno variables and he does the best he can to control them; IAT being the most important. His findings are similar to Lucky Dog Garage’s and mine: these cars make about a max of 145 WHP. Keep in mind…
We know that different dyno's read differently, especially chassis dyno's. Some of the inertia wheel chassis dyno's have the air temp sensor located inside the computer sitting near the dyno which results in very inaccurate air temperatures. Some chassis dyno's are purely inertia type. This means they are dependent upon how quickly the vehicle can accelerate the drum from one speed to another. If the bearings the drum is mounted on change their friction factor, it will change the vehicles ability to accelerate it. The owner of the dyno has no ability to measure that. If the owner wants to create some high numbers all he has to do is tell the software the wheels weighs more than it does, and bingo... you've got higher numbers. Owners of chassis dyno's that use eddy current brakes do not have calibration devices to calibrate the torque the eddy current is absorbing in the range of torque being seen at the wheels. These owners are not provided with any method or explanation how to properly calibrate the dyno for the torque range they are using.
Because engines respond to inlet air temp, barometric pressure, and humidity it is necessary to record those values and with normally aspirated engines apply a correction factor in an attempt to create a level playing field. But the validity of using a horsepower correction factor with a positive pressure inlet engine (as in supercharged or turbo charged) is a debatable issue.

 

nicely done Don

 

silly question, but where did you get hold of your M62 supercharger, and was it a direct fit?

 

Graham, the short version of the story is that the M62 is not a direct fit, DDM fashioned a custom mount for it, along with an electric water pump ( the factory water pump is driven off the M45), etc., etc., etc. PM SpiderX for more detail, but hope that gives you the basic idea.

 

So, does anyone know what this thing costs? Parts, installation?

 

One-meeeeelion dollars!

Really though, all costs (to my knowledge) have been guesswork on part of the audience. I think we'll have to wait for the cast to post figures.

 

Well alrighty then. Thanks for discounting my experiences Don.

Im not going to tie up SpiderX's post debating something neither of us can win.

Fact is his car started out lower, his gains are lower than some would expect (even his).

 

190whp / 168tq isn't bad, depending on how much the kit costs when finally introduced..

 

this doesn't really make sense to me as I was making 188/167 when I had only a 15% Pulley, benfer intake, UUC exhaust...


Kalbone is currently making... 195 WHP ... I forget his torque... and he has only a 15% pulley, K&N intake, N1 dual can exhaust by Fireballed and a tune.... his car before the tune was in the 168 WHP range.... so still...

I think and hope the M62 would provide more than that...

 

I don't think 190whp is typical of pulley+intake+exhaust. I would even venture to say that the dyno that reads 190whp for a car with only those three things might be a wee bit optimistic. That's just me.

How about I qualify my previous post with "I wish we had pre-m62 numbers for whskysouth's car, from the same dyno (under similar conditions)."

Assuming it was around the 140-150whp area, that looks to be a nice bump in power to me.

 

but comparing two HP numbers don't really mean much without seeing the shape of the curves...

Just a thought....

Matt

 

ok... here's my STOCK dyno sheet.... the 188 was pretty much the same... just higher... this has three pulls on it... YAY! curves :|

yeah it's a magical dyno...
sorry for the sarcasim... but I am tired of the SAME depate here OVER AND OVER AND OVER.... it's been 3 years... and all the nay sayers are the same... but I still keep making more and more power... strange isn't it...

 

Cost? I'll take a stab.
$1800 Gen IV M62
$500 intake runners
$200 mounting brackets
$150 pulley
$25 belt
$200 water pump
$50 plumbing and clamps
$600 install
$1200 for tuning (real ecu parameter changes; not just a piggy-back such as UniChip)
$4775 Total

Of course to get any benefit you’ll need to include a CAI, cylinder head with at least 2mm oversize exhaust valves such as the Wegner, a matched intake manifold and runner, and a properly made exhaust such as the Stahl. Plus, the associated install charges.

 

I really don't know..... I think my early dynos were right in there with the average......
I have been saying for a long time that getting to 185 or so is very easy... getting up over 200 requires a lot more.... I still believe that to be true... remember Eric at Helix's challenge re 200 whp....

 

we jsut had a Dyno day not but a week ago or so... and there were a couple cars ove 200 WHP with out any head work... again this is a MUSTANG dyno (like the helix one) so it is a heart breaker... now this was three or so aoutta 20 or so cars... so yeah... it's not the norm... but I think the biggest problem is not enough people got basline #s i the early days... LOL.... and here we are... all these years later... trying to figure out what these cars should make...


I have said it before and I say it again... it's not the final # but the delta... the delta should be consistant... if a 15% pulley makes 20 WHP... then it should across the board... that's what really matters... and I think this is a given for the M62... my curiousity is what is the delta... cause for 4k...30 WHP isn't it...

 

Getting to a 13.4 @ 100 was easy as well, cam header 15%.

My new catch phrase;

Weigh it drag it, horsepower =

 

here here! that's what I am talking about! there's no more excuses!

 

Damn straight!

You are getting me scared paul! You almost have my record!

 

almost time to come back out

 

i know... i know...

im excited!

now i have something to do!

HOPEFULLY... we can get to the track friday... but it all depends on this damn clutch... and MAYBE a DIFF..

 

My car only dyno'd at 170whp. This was on a Dyno Dynamics dyno, so I don't know how effecient they are. The car was a stock 06 JCW. That being said I believe 180 whp may be possible withh just a pully, a decent intake and exaust.

I'm not trying to be an *** and spiderX has a wonder full car I wish I had half the mods he does. Here's my thoughts I know the whole M62 thing is still in its early stages and this is another comparsion to Honda's but here goes.

Honda owners can buy the intake, headders, exaust, cams,ignition and tune. Total price if you get good parts can easily be $2,000-2,500. Hp increase depending on engine lets say 35-40 whp, BUT you could just take the same amount of money buy or built a turbo kit and make easily 75-150 whp or more with a good tune on a bone stock engine. I've seen it done so many times. It seems rather odd when you look back at what you spent trying to make power with mild bolt on's when someone else spends the same amount and makes more power.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that I was very happy and intrested in the M62 and still am, but we add all these nickle and dime mods to make some what modest numbers and keep the super charger, and newer members can look at tuls video and the fireball car and can make 250 plus for a few hundred dollas more or even less than what some of us members payed for our mods. True the P/P head and intake mainfold the exaust and a few other parts will help the car make more power but over all a stock MCS with a $3,500 turbo kit will own a $3,500 moded mini and it apears the M62 mini as well. I have learned from my mini owner ship that turbo > S/C.

I hope the M62 makes more power, and we all say power isn't every thing but we wouldn't be trying to sticking a bigger s/c on a engine to make the car a more rounded daily driver. So good luck with greater numbers,I'm rooting for you guys.

 

I was there for that dyno day and my pulley,cai,cat back car pulled 181 whp at 6800 rpm and I was the last car of the day in the warmest part of the day. Alas, I have no baseline to compare to. The cars that were at or very near 200whp had everything but head/cam work. Other cars there with pulley, cai, cat back were pulling 165-170 whp, one of those with a unichip...

...oh, JCW cars were getting about 170-175...Mustang Dyno

 

Saygoodbye,

I think that exhaust of yours really works