This topic may have been discussed before, not sure.

We have been looking at upgrades that seem to increase HP and some torque, but it seem like the torque is not enough. Is there a way to dial in more torque with one or two or more mods. I am not a techy but I was looking at the Neon SRT specs and it has approx. 250ft-lb with abut 220HP. If we have neared the 220HP with our MINIs then where is the torque?



Peter

 

The Neon engine is almost twice the size of the MINI's so you're really comparing apples and oranges there. You're not going to see much more power from the MINI engine without some major sacrifices in drivability and reliability.

 

Maybe we could get Dodge to put a Viper V10 in the boot!! They've put in almost everything else with four wheels now!

I'd say she drives pretty good the way it is, can't wait to add the extra hp already identified. If I need more after that bring on the E46 M3!

 

That Neon SRT is one little rocket car! It is a new model for 2003. Turbo plus new tweaked suspension and Viper-inspired sport seats. Zero to 60 is said to take about 6 seconds. All Neons in 2003 will receive a facelift in the form of new front and rear ends as well as interior changes that include a new steering wheel. If you only want speed, it may be for you.

Specs from Edmunds :

Neon is 174" long and 67" wide. It has 215 hp and weighs 2940 lbs -
MINI S is 143" long and 66" wide. It has 163hp and weighs 2678 lbs -

but think about the MINI for a moment, because it's more than just the Specs ....

Think of the born-again Mini Cooper as an affordable, luxurious go-kart for adults. I
The thrill of owning a piece of history with modern underpinnings, BMW-engineered suspension and steering, chock full of comfort and safety features, hatchback utility, and all scheduled maintenance is on-the-house for 3 years....

 

Vespa,

I see, I overlooked that the Neon has a 2400cc displacement. Is that also the reason it has the 250ft-lb torque too?

Thanx
Peter

 

itsthesize,

Ironic, the answer is in your username! As vespa pointed out, the Neon SRT has a larger engine. Technically speaking, there a only a few ways to get substantial increases in torque:

1. Increase displacement.
2. Increase compression ratio.
3. Increase intake pressure (boost).

Compression ratio and intake boost must be balanced carefully to avoid detonation. With the pulley mod, the MCS engine is probably about at its limit regarding these two parameters; assuming you want to run on pump gas.

The one untapped area is displacement. Randy hinted once at someone in the UK working on a bore and stroke kit that would take the motor out to the 2 liter range, but I've not seen anything definitive about it. This kind of mod would be very expensive since you're talking rebuilding the motor from the bottom up; new crank, pistons, etc. Then you'd undoubtedly need a high performance clutch and a limited slip unit. You could easily be talking $10k with labor.

Cheers,

James

 

The MINI has a 1.6L 4-cylinder engine. The Neon SRT-4 has a 2.4L 4-cylinder engine.

That's your main answer right there. Small displacement engines don't produce a lot of low end torque and that's just the physics of it. This was helped somewhat in the MINI by the addition of a supercharger for the S which boosted max torque pretty well to 155 lb-ft.

But a 1.6L is never going to be described as a torquey engine. The SRT-4's engine is turbocharged and running a good amount of boost. Its displacement plus the forced induction is what makes it more torquey than the MINI engine.

In terms of torque, the old saying "there's no replacement for displacement" holds true.

 

It has a little to do with displacement but not that much, everyone is forgetting that the SRT4 is turbocharged. With a turbo you usually get a gigantic torque spike as soon as the turbo spools up which is what you see with the SRT-4. Just like my GTI when it was modified, as soon as the turbo spooled it would spike to 21psi and I would make about 140lb-ft of torque from a 1.8l motor. The mini on the other hand is a lot more linear since the supercharger makes peak boost near redline. It actually has a better powerband because it is flatter, its not about peak numbers it is about area under the curve. An ideal motor makes peak torque down low and holds it to redline which is what the mini does for the most part. Yes the neon is faster but I think the Mini is a better balanced car.
Mike

 

I think someone should develop a kit that puts a massive supercharger on the engine, like in this pic...

I know it probably isn't feasible, but just think of the possibilities.....

 

Peter-
When doing mods consider balance- power vs handling. Adding power only without adding suspension and braking improvements would not necessarily improve the car. With a great amount of power (HP and torque) added you need to start worrying about the impact of that upgrade on ALL other engine and cooling systems. Otherwise you will run in to problems with reliability and longevity. Most people want their cars to last a long time-hopefully more than 10-15 years, maybe 20 to 25 years if that is possible. See the original minis still driving around? People still love those cars.

The Neon SRT is all about Chysler power. Drive it. I bet the handling is better- more balanced with the Mini Cooper S. Also the Neon is much heavier by 262 pounds- that's a huge difference for handling. Tons of power- usually means loss of traction- my MCS never gets wheelspin-no loss of traction-it's super grippy. The neon wins on straight line acceleration but I doubt you will ever see the 28 mpg I get in mixed daily driving or the 35 mpg I get on the highway. With gas prices soaring I don't know how long it will be before filling up for $30 a shot will get old faster than you can drive that 215 HP neon. Plus the cooper looks much better and is built much better than any neon. I had a chrysler for 11 years and sold it for my mini (my wife vowed to never buy chrysler again.period- trouble.trouble.trouble)

Cooperspeed-
Neat police cruiser Mini you have there, super mid rear spoiler and no need for mufflers or a cat of course-
Excellent Job, looks like an 8 cylinder engine in there-good for a 80/20 weight distribution :evil:

 

Good point RUKnight, the turbo in that SRT-4 is pushing a lot of boost which tends to spike a bit unlike a supercharger which tends to be more linear.

Though you can tune a turbo engine for a flat torque curve too. See VW's 1.8T in stock form. Doesn't push a whole lot of boost and you have peak torque available from something like 1950 rpm all the way up to 4600 rpm or so.

 

I hate it when people try to compair the MINI to the Neon. Might as well compair it to the Lambo and a Porsche while your at it.

 

>>Good point RUKnight, the turbo in that SRT-4 is pushing a lot of boost which tends to spike a bit unlike a supercharger which tends to be more linear.
>>
>>Though you can tune a turbo engine for a flat torque curve too. See VW's 1.8T in stock form. Doesn't push a whole lot of boost and you have peak torque available from something like 1950 rpm all the way up to 4600 rpm or so.

Yup I'm well aware, I've been driving my GTI in stock form for quite a few months...it sucks You're right it is pretty smooth and linear in stock form but it still has a touch of lag and the top end still sucks, the stock turbo is just to small for the 1.8t.
Mike