Drivetrain just installed madness water to air intercooler!
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5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
just installed madness water to air intercooler!
Hey everyone!
I just finished up installing a minimadness water to air intercooler and I just want to say WOW! What a huge differnce! the differnce in temperture from the hot side to the cool side is astounding!!!
Why more people don't consider this when looking at 700-800 intercoolers is beyond me!
The kit is really well made and is pretty well thought out!
I guess here in hot as hell phoenix we need all of the help we can get!
one of the really neat things about the kit is that the water pump stays on for 5 minutes after you shut the ignition off!
The install was straight forward and easy! It takes some time, but it is well worth it!
Off to the dyno tomorrow to see what kind of gains if any were made. The car definetly feels stronger especially after repeated abuse!
Anyways, i just wanted to share a great product that is hardly ever talked about on NAM. George at madness was great to deal with, shipped everything promptly and answered all of my questions.
I just finished up installing a minimadness water to air intercooler and I just want to say WOW! What a huge differnce! the differnce in temperture from the hot side to the cool side is astounding!!!
Why more people don't consider this when looking at 700-800 intercoolers is beyond me!
The kit is really well made and is pretty well thought out!
I guess here in hot as hell phoenix we need all of the help we can get!
one of the really neat things about the kit is that the water pump stays on for 5 minutes after you shut the ignition off!
The install was straight forward and easy! It takes some time, but it is well worth it!
Off to the dyno tomorrow to see what kind of gains if any were made. The car definetly feels stronger especially after repeated abuse!
Anyways, i just wanted to share a great product that is hardly ever talked about on NAM. George at madness was great to deal with, shipped everything promptly and answered all of my questions.
They are amazing! I went to a lapping day in the Seattle area this past summer and got to put my hand on the M. M. Water-to-Air IC that is on the MC"T" (turbo+335HP) just after running for 30minutes strong, and it was cool to the touch!
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
cheers,
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5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
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From: out and aboot
If you can read... it says that i will be going to the dyno (today)
if you are looking for inlet outlet temps... go to there website... they have already done the boring sensor test!
CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
almost forgot
astounding
adjective 1.so surprisingly impressive as to stun or overwhelm; "such an enormous response was astonishing"; "an astounding achievement";
a·stound
tr.v. a·stound·ed, a·stound·ing, a·stounds
To astonish and bewilder.
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5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
it does work really well. On the drive home i was driving aggressivley and when i got hom i popped the hood and felt both sides of the intercooler... one the left said for about a tenth of a second because my hand damn near melted off... and on the otherside, it was what i would call room temperature. Its a significant differnce.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: Redlands
I find that the heat soak was a problem. On any given extended adventure, including just idleing long periods, the very small amount of water in the system was getting hotter and hotter. With outlet temps from 125-180 dependent on ambient temp and conditions (I saw two and change out temp on a hot day and hard running). For the most part a 100-110 degree temp drop from in to out was the usual. Extended time in use either hard driving or idle the number drop from there. Cooler weather locations and normal street driving it works better then stock, but not much better then GRS or GT top mount.
NOW consider the weight of the system and one more thing to go wrong/break (pump). Also, I did not drive my mini everyday and for the most part I found the 5 min run time was draining the battery, but I would just start the car to idle for a while and shut it off, not allowing for full charge time.
My 2 silver pieces.
Not a bad set up, just my experience. I working on a way to use the system (jacketed intercooler) in a different more efficient way before removing/replacing it with something else.:impatient
NOW consider the weight of the system and one more thing to go wrong/break (pump). Also, I did not drive my mini everyday and for the most part I found the 5 min run time was draining the battery, but I would just start the car to idle for a while and shut it off, not allowing for full charge time.
My 2 silver pieces.
Not a bad set up, just my experience. I working on a way to use the system (jacketed intercooler) in a different more efficient way before removing/replacing it with something else.:impatient
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque New Mexico
I don't need a lesson on dictionary definitions, but thanks anyway. And if you don't want to take sensor readings that's OK. I talked with a guy in Phoenix with the MM intercooler and he said it added 30HP to his MINI, so your dyno should provide another data point to his. I look forward to your report.
5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
I find that the heat soak was a problem. On any given extended adventure, including just idleing long periods, the very small amount of water in the system was getting hotter and hotter. With outlet temps from 125-180 dependent on ambient temp and conditions (I saw two and change out temp on a hot day and hard running). For the most part a 100-110 degree temp drop from in to out was the usual. Extended time in use either hard driving or idle the number drop from there. Cooler weather locations and normal street driving it works better then stock, but not much better then GRS or GT top mount.
NOW consider the weight of the system and one more thing to go wrong/break (pump). Also, I did not drive my mini everyday and for the most part I found the 5 min run time was draining the battery, but I would just start the car to idle for a while and shut it off, not allowing for full charge time.
My 2 silver pieces.
Not a bad set up, just my experience. I working on a way to use the system (jacketed intercooler) in a different more efficient way before removing/replacing it with something else.:impatient
NOW consider the weight of the system and one more thing to go wrong/break (pump). Also, I did not drive my mini everyday and for the most part I found the 5 min run time was draining the battery, but I would just start the car to idle for a while and shut it off, not allowing for full charge time.
My 2 silver pieces.
Not a bad set up, just my experience. I working on a way to use the system (jacketed intercooler) in a different more efficient way before removing/replacing it with something else.:impatient
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: Redlands
I do think the system can work....just not the way it was intended....
Like Jurrasic Park... I spared no expensive on building the car...
And I have found this to be the most important, difficult part....
Florida being Hot and Humid does not help but I should/will be able to get it to work.... and with more water and LESS pump/hoses/rad and what not
and no added weight...hard to believe....?
Not really!
the SIMPLEST solution is almost always over looked.
My 1 small Gold piece.
Like Jurrasic Park... I spared no expensive on building the car...
And I have found this to be the most important, difficult part....
Florida being Hot and Humid does not help but I should/will be able to get it to work.... and with more water and LESS pump/hoses/rad and what not
and no added weight...hard to believe....?
Not really!
the SIMPLEST solution is almost always over looked.
My 1 small Gold piece.
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5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
I don't need a lesson on dictionary definitions, but thanks anyway. And if you don't want to take sensor readings that's OK. I talked with a guy in Phoenix with the MM intercooler and he said it added 30HP to his MINI, so your dyno should provide another data point to his. I look forward to your report.
If you don't need a lesson in dictionary definitions than please stop asking for them.
On a more serious note... have you ever tested the DFIC? Have you done the boring sensor test? Have you messured pre and post boost? I have heard about a serious build up in pressure on the inlet side... but i havent seen it for myself... i was just curious
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5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
You can tell the car runs much more consistantly now.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to get into the dyno today. They didn't have room to squeeze me in today. I will keep you posted of gains.
again... you can always go to www.mini-madness.com for your real world info...
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
From: Tucson, AZ
Being in AZ myself, I am interested in the whole water IC question. Randy Webb and I had a long talk about it when he was here last January. Basically we have a somewhat unique setting in being hot here in the summer, which obviously is gonna decrease the charge density and overall power as the ambient is so high.
But the advanatge of water IC-ing is the resistance to heat soak compared to and air IC setup. When it is REALLY hot like it is here though, the water gets damn hot quickly! And then it has a tendency to retain that heat as water doesn't cool as quickly as air.
Now offsetting this in AZ for air IC systems is the lack of humidity allowing for a water misting system to have significant effects on overal temp delta.
What would be interesting, and what Randy and I ultimately decided would be cool to test, would be a water-air vs a air-air with a misting system in th dead of an AZ summer........not that we ever found the time to do it!
But the advanatge of water IC-ing is the resistance to heat soak compared to and air IC setup. When it is REALLY hot like it is here though, the water gets damn hot quickly! And then it has a tendency to retain that heat as water doesn't cool as quickly as air.
Now offsetting this in AZ for air IC systems is the lack of humidity allowing for a water misting system to have significant effects on overal temp delta.
What would be interesting, and what Randy and I ultimately decided would be cool to test, would be a water-air vs a air-air with a misting system in th dead of an AZ summer........not that we ever found the time to do it!
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 0
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 0
Being in AZ myself, I am interested in the whole water IC question. Randy Webb and I had a long talk about it when he was here last January. Basically we have a somewhat unique setting in being hot here in the summer, which obviously is gonna decrease the charge density and overall power as the ambient is so high.
But the advanatge of water IC-ing is the resistance to heat soak compared to and air IC setup. When it is REALLY hot like it is here though, the water gets damn hot quickly! And then it has a tendency to retain that heat as water doesn't cool as quickly as air.
Now offsetting this in AZ for air IC systems is the lack of humidity allowing for a water misting system to have significant effects on overal temp delta.
What would be interesting, and what Randy and I ultimately decided would be cool to test, would be a water-air vs a air-air with a misting system in th dead of an AZ summer........not that we ever found the time to do it!
But the advanatge of water IC-ing is the resistance to heat soak compared to and air IC setup. When it is REALLY hot like it is here though, the water gets damn hot quickly! And then it has a tendency to retain that heat as water doesn't cool as quickly as air.
Now offsetting this in AZ for air IC systems is the lack of humidity allowing for a water misting system to have significant effects on overal temp delta.
What would be interesting, and what Randy and I ultimately decided would be cool to test, would be a water-air vs a air-air with a misting system in th dead of an AZ summer........not that we ever found the time to do it!
Thread Starter
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5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 2
From: out and aboot
Being in AZ myself, I am interested in the whole water IC question. Randy Webb and I had a long talk about it when he was here last January. Basically we have a somewhat unique setting in being hot here in the summer, which obviously is gonna decrease the charge density and overall power as the ambient is so high.
But the advanatge of water IC-ing is the resistance to heat soak compared to and air IC setup. When it is REALLY hot like it is here though, the water gets damn hot quickly! And then it has a tendency to retain that heat as water doesn't cool as quickly as air.
Now offsetting this in AZ for air IC systems is the lack of humidity allowing for a water misting system to have significant effects on overal temp delta.
What would be interesting, and what Randy and I ultimately decided would be cool to test, would be a water-air vs a air-air with a misting system in th dead of an AZ summer........not that we ever found the time to do it!
But the advanatge of water IC-ing is the resistance to heat soak compared to and air IC setup. When it is REALLY hot like it is here though, the water gets damn hot quickly! And then it has a tendency to retain that heat as water doesn't cool as quickly as air.
Now offsetting this in AZ for air IC systems is the lack of humidity allowing for a water misting system to have significant effects on overal temp delta.
What would be interesting, and what Randy and I ultimately decided would be cool to test, would be a water-air vs a air-air with a misting system in th dead of an AZ summer........not that we ever found the time to do it!
I guess seeing will have to be believing...
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 0
Where's the neighborhood?
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 0
From: Tucson, AZ
Just food for thought, for us in the desert!
BTW, did you do the install? How much of a pain in the neck was it?
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5th Gear
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,088
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From: out and aboot
I would love to see it in person! Not trying to beat up on you, just bringing up an interesting conversation and a twist on the topic. I had always worked under the assumption that due to the greater capacitance of water it would always be a better setup to have air-water.
Just food for thought, for us in the desert!
BTW, did you do the install? How much of a pain in the neck was it?
Just food for thought, for us in the desert!
BTW, did you do the install? How much of a pain in the neck was it?
you are welcome to see it... im sure we can arrange some sort of meeting with you when you are in the valley.
the install wasn't difficult at all... just time consuming. I guess i would say that a pulley install is more difficult and requires more complicated tools and process... The intercooler takes longer to instal but is less demanding if that makes any sense at all.